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    The Art of Inuit Storytelling
    Zacharias Kunuk (b. 1957, Kapuivik near Igloolik) won the Camera d’or at Cannes 2001 for Isuma’s first feature, Atanarjuat The Fast Runner.


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ᓱᒃᑲᔪᒥᒃ ᖃᕋᓴᐅᔭᒃᑯᕈᓐᓇᐅᑎᖃᕐᐲᑦ? ᓱᒃᑲᔪᒧᐊᕐᓗᑎᑦ

ᑕᕆᔭᕋᓱᒃᑕᐃᑦ ᓱᒃᑲᐃᓗᐊᕐᐸ? ᐊᓯᓪᓕᕐᓗᒍ ᓱᒃᑲᐃᓂᕐᓴᒧᑦ ᑕᑯᒃᓴᐅᓇᕐᑐᒧᑦ

Lazarie Otak Testimony

Click on 'Read More' for English Translation of Lazarie Otak Testimony by Peter Irniq, February 2009

Lazarie Otak Testimony May 2007

Peter Irniq:  Lazarie Otak, please feel very welcome.

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, I feel very welcome, thank you.

Peter Irniq:  Prior to going to school in Chesterfield Inlet, where did you used to live at?

Lazarie Otak:  I was true Iglulingmiutaq(a resident of Iglulik) as my parents were alive.  We were always living here so I grew up in this community.  I remember very well when I was being sent away to school, for the first time.  For the very first time, I went to school here.  Why I was sent out to school from here, while there was already a school here, I do not understand to this date. 

Peter Irniq:  There was a school here in Iglulik?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, absolutely, a brand new one!  When there was a newly-built school here, I was sent away. 

Peter Irniq:  When you were being sent away, what did they do to you, as you were leaving?

Lazarie Otak: I don’t totally understand this but my mother said, “You have to go away to go to school.”  I only remember this part but I don’t know what the purpose was. 

Peter Irniq:  Was your mother or your father asked for their permission for you to go to school there?

Lazarie Otak:  Perhaps yes, that is why they said, that I have to go to away.   I don’t remember exact reasons why, I had to go away but simply told that I must get schooling and be educated.   That was all they told me. 

Peter Irniq:  Prior to going to school, can you talk about your life as an Amitturmiutaq(Resident of Amitturmiut). 

Lazarie Otak:  I don’t remember a lot but one that I remember well was the school being built.  It was a beautifully brand new one, as I recall it.  And I attended one year at that school, for the first time, here in Iglulik.  But again, what I do not understand to this date is the fact that while there was a school here already, why did they send me so far away.  I still don’t understand this. 

Peter Irniq:  Do you remember who ran the school?

Lazarie Otak:  That school here in Iglulik?  Yes, the name of that school was Iglulik Federal Day School.  I understood it to mean that it was run by the Government(of Canada). 

Peter Irniq:  What year did you leave for Igluligaarjuk(Chesterfield Inlet)?

Lazarie Otak:  I went there in 1960.  They built the school here around 1959 and I went to school here.  But, perhaps in 1960 or 60, they sent me away to school. 

Peter Irniq: 
How old were you then?

Lazarie Otak:  I was eight years old.  Some people were being sent away at a much younger age.  To this day, I am often surprised that they sent me away at eight years old. 

Peter Irniq:  Even though you attained the age of eight years old, you were still a child.

Lazarie Otak:  Yes.  Yes, absolutely!  It’s like if I had a child who is eight years old, I would under no circumstances, sent him/her away, to a school anywhere!  I am aware of the fact that, I would never send them away.  This is how much I am aware of myself. 

Peter Irniq:  When you were first sent to Igluligaarjuk, you went by airplane for obvious reasons, when you landed at Chesterfield Inlet, who all did you see?

Lazarie Otak:  The ones I saw first for the first time, were Grey Nun Sisters.  There were maybe two or three.  When we got off the plane, I particularly noticed those sisters.  It was my first time ever seeing a nun.  They seemed extremely clean!  Here is how they gathered us, boys line up here, girls line up here.  That was how, they gathered us together, this was something that was very foreign to me.  I did not understand it.  As fellow-Inuit, I thought, we would have been together, mixed among ourselves.  But then, we were separated or divided. 

Peter Irniq:  You saw their clothing, did you particularly notice them?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes!  I really noticed them with strange feelings.  They had what looked like a little hood.  And a little “screen” around their faces, little screens attached to their hoods.  I particularly notice the fact that they seemed so very clean.  That was my first impression of them. 

Peter Irniq:  Did they have a small crucifix around their necks?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes.  They had a small crucifix as well. 

Peter Irniq:  When you were then taken to the hostel, can you describe what the place look like inside?

Lazarie Otak:  When I saw it, it seemed very huge.  I saw things that I have never seen before, such as a building, built the way it was.  It was very awesome.  There were three storeys.  One floor was for the boys and the top floor was for the girls.  There was a dining room.  We had a huge bedroom, a large dormitory.  There were lots of beds.  That was one thing that I particularly noticed. 

Peter Irniq:  When you got there, did you notice there were all kinds of rules to follow?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, absolutely!  There were all kinds of rules.  For example, I mentioned something about boys and girls being separated immediately at the airport, this was one of the rules.  From the landing lake for example, the little girls had to follow a Sister and the boys followed another sister.  This was particularly of noticeable to me.  It was like dividing the boys and girls. 

Peter Irniq:  We had same clothing, sort of like uniforms.  When you arrived there, did they take your clothing right away and made you put on new clothes?

Lazarie Otak: 
Yes, absolutely.  My clothes were new.  I had new seal skin boots.  My mother had made me brand new kamiik(seal skin) boots, knowing that I was soon to go away.  That was one thing that I was noticing, they took away my brand new kamiik and made me put on shoes.  From there, I have never seen my brand new kamiik again at the hostel.  The only time I saw them again, was when we were going home the next spring, the boots had completely dried up.  That was how I saw them. 

Peter Irniq:  They dried up so much, they became much smaller.

Lazarie Otak:  They were no longer useable at all!  They dried up so much that, this is how hard they became! 

Peter Irniq:  Those were the ones that you mother had sewen so beautifully?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, she made them with great deal of hard work!  She wanted to make them beautiful and she wanted me to dress up in very good clothing, as when I was leaving.  But, I did not see them again.  They gave us same socks, same shoes, gave us numbers, our numbers that we had to memorize.  All my clothes had numbers, at various places.  We were able to tell these are our clothing from our numbers, especially after they had washed them.  One way of telling them was looking at our numbers, because our clothing were basically all the same for boys. 

Peter Irniq:  Inside that hostel, what were the other things that were most noticeable?

Lazarie Otak:  I really noticed the food we were going to eat.  As I mention earlier, because my mother and father had become old people, perhaps we had a bit of Qablunaaq food, but one thing I really noticed eating was  the porridge.  I often remember that very well.  I probably had some when I was living here in Iglulik but it’s something that I really noticed having to eat it in Chesterfield Inlet. 

Peter Irniq:  Did you eat any Inuit food?

Lazarie Otak:  Absolutely not!  Only very frequently, we had Arctic Char.  They were boiled but when they boiled them, they boiled them with guts in them.  They would cut them to boil them but without ever taking off the guts.  That used to be how it was. 

Peter Irniq: 
At your home, do you think, your mother or your father would have boiled fish, with guts in them?

Lazarie Otak:  If it was fish, absolutely not!  If it was fish, particularly no.  I remember as well eating Cow Beef, frozen.  I remember perhaps we were asking about it, then they told us it was cow beef, frozen meat to eat. 

Peter Irniq:  The Grey Nuns, who were our bosses, do you think, they ate the same kind of food, as we did, then?

Lazarie:  During the time that I was there for the final year, I asked them, if they ate the same things that we ate. They said yes, they ate the same things that we  ate.  But, we used to sneak and look through a crack on the door, we would look see what they ate.  They ate some really good stuff, and in the middle of their table, they used to have apples and oranges. 

Peter Irniq:  The meals they had were they inviting and did you crave?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, absolutely, they were very inviting and you crave for them. 

Peter Irniq:  When you were in Chesterfield Inlet, do you remember what you ate, that was so good, like craving for something really good to eat?

Lazarie:  Absolutely not!

Peter Irniq:  You don’t have anything to remember about eating some really good food?

Lazarie Otak:  Perhaps because, we were used to eating bannock at home, so we would try to make a bannock or someone else would make a bannock.  They were not at all as good as my mother used to make them. 

Peter Irniq: 
When a Christmas time arrive here in Iglulik, what were you made to do, what kind of things did you do?

Lazarie Otak:  Here, I don’t remember a lot of things but I remember people, being very happy.  We used to have one day to celebrate together.  I remember vaguely that we had to stay up quite late to go to midnight mass.  Then, after the church service, people would play nugluktaq, where an object with a small hole in the middle would be hanging from the ceiling, and people would try to be the first ones, to poke their spears into the hole.  If you poke your spear first, then you win a prize.  That was a lot of fun.  They were only Inuit, who played those games. 

Peter Irniq:  Did they have big feasts and eating lots of food?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes.  They ate bread and beans as well.  They also had tea and biscuits.  They had those mostly, although, they were not the real food of the Inuit.  This took place at the Roman Catholic Mission. 

Peter Irniq: 
When you in Chesterfield Inlet at the hostel as well as at the school, do you remember about your Christmas time?

Lazarie Otak:  I don’t totally recall but I remember having to be woken up I the middle of the night so that we could go to a midnight mass.  I remember this much about it.  Perhaps, I was not totally about these things that I cannot really remember them.  Yes, I remember some of the happy times.  I don’t remember the unhappy times. 

Peter Irniq:  Did you have a big feast at Christmas time in Chesterfield Inlet?

Lazarie Otak:  I think, we just ate what ever we ate every day.  At that period of time, they added a few candies. 

Peter Irniq:
  Over there, you know about these Qablunaat(White People) use to indicate Christmas time, as a happy time, such as Christmas trees, did you see any of these in Chesterfield Inlet?

Lazarie Otak:  I don’t remember much of this, although, I have some small memories of it.  I think, I try to forget some of these things, I don’t know.  Perhaps, I was too very much homesick.  I was always thinking of my home and thinking of my mother.  I do not remember some of things there, as long as they did not have much impact on me, then I don’t think of them very much. 

Peter Irniq:  At Christmas Time, did you have recreational games in Chesterfield Inlet?

Lazarie Otak:  No.  No, we did not have any games.  They gave us some small little gifts.  They gave us little gifts, to us little boys.  I remember this but don’t remember exactly what the gift was.  Even though, it was a Christmas time, I don’t remember either being happy or being unhappy. 

Peter Irniq:  What about your fellow students.  Do you think, they thought, the same way as you did?

Lazarie Otak:
  Perhaps yes but I don’t know.  We were at most times together, being friends and so forth.  I don’t remember anyone being very happy, at all.  At Christmas time, I don’t remember anyone, going all out to be happy at all.

Peter Irniq: 
Perhaps, you were thinking all the time of your parents as well as other relatives?

Lazarie Otak:  Perhaps, yes.  My mother and father were Elders, and I remember them here very well, but find it difficult to answer fully. 

Peter Irniq:  What sort of rules were applied to scoldings or reprimands, as this was often the rule by the caretakers?  Were you ever scolded or reprimanded?

Lazarie Otak:
  Yes, absolutely!  I was often really scared to be scolded so I tried to be a good person all the time.  I did not wanted to be scolded!  I tried my very best to follow all the rules, that were applied.  How would I say this in Inuktitut – a perfect boy, a perfect person!  Like that.

Peter Irniq:  Perhaps like, one that never makes mistakes?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, I tried to live life as someone who never made mistakes.  That was what we were told to do by them.  To make a mistake, was extremely scary at the hostel.  Those who made mistakes, I noticed received a high price for it, they were hit or beaten with a stick.  They were made to sleep in broad daylight.  This was because, they were bad, according to their eyes.  As for me, I tried in every way, not to make any mistakes.  I did not wanted to be punished and scolded.  I was very scared and intimidated. 

Peter Irniq:
  When you were scolded, were you severely punished?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, very much!  It was extremely scary to be scolded.  I remember this one person, who used to scold us.  She would scold us so much that this Sister’s  face used to go very red!   The thing is, even just to see them, it was very scary, if you do anything wrong, guaranteed, you will be scolded but you try to be good so that you can avoid being scolded. 

Peter Irniq:  Over there, when we were scolded, we would be taken to Sister Supeorior(s)?  So, we would be taken to the big boss of the sisters, right?  We were told to say, we were sorry for what we did, is that right?

Lazarie Otak: 

Peter Irniq:  What about that school, when you first got to Chesterfield Inlet, can you describe what the school was like, inside?  Can you tell a story about it?

Lazarie Otak:  Our school was sort of like this in a kind of L shape.  Little ones would be on this side, and the bigger ones would be placed on this side.   We would enter the school on one side, and the bigger students, would enter from this other side.   We were very punctual.  We would never be late for school, guaranteed, as it was very close.  When we were going to be late, we would have to have notes, and give them to the teachers. 

Peter Irniq:  When you first got into the classroom to go to school, what was the first thing, you had to do?

Lazarie Otak: 
Prior to going to school in the morning, the first thing we had to do was to go to pray at the church.  And sometimes, when we wanted to go to church.  When you wanted to go to church, you used to place your clothes at the end of your bed, then they knew when to wake you up, to go to church.  But, if you place your clothes at the other end, where your pillow is, then they let you sleep a bit longer.  But on Sunday, you had to go to church to attend high mass.  You would go to church in the morning and then in the afternoon, you would go to church again, to say your rosaries. 

Peter Irniq:
  Did you used to be woken up very early in the morning like around 5 a.m., so that you could be asked to be an Alter Boys?

Lazarie Otak: 
We would go upstairs to the top floor of the hostel, as there was small chapel there.  This was a small chapel for the Grey Nuns for them to pray.  So, when we were going to serve as Alter Boys at the prayer service, then they would wake us up at 5 in the morning. 

Peter Irniq:  You  must have been  sleepy or drowsy?

Lazarie Otak: 
Yes very much, of course!  But we had to follow the rules.  Most of us followed the rules, majority of the time. 

Peter Irniq: 
The Grey Nuns operated a hospital there as well at another building, did they also send you to serve as Alter Boys at 5 in the morning?

Lazarie Otak:  This was before my time going there.  I know, there was also a chapel there.  But because, I was probably too small of a child, I was never sent there to serve as Alter Boy. 

Peter Irniq:  You mentioned at the hostel, there were three storeys, boys were in the middle floor and the little girls were at the top floor.  While the girls were situated upstairs, did you have relatives upstairs?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, for sure.  I had relatives.  There were my sister’s daughters.  I had a step sister there, I also had other relatives, who were somewhat distant relatives.  But, when I got there, they were no longer anything to me.  I can say that for sure.  They were no longer my sisters.  They were no longer my cousins.  It was like, they made us far away from each other and they diminished this relationship.  It appeared to be like that to me.  Especially this blood relations. 

Peter Irniq:  And you were not able to see each other any more?

Lazarie Otak:  Y
es.  We could not longer talk to them.  During the week, we were not to talk to them any more.  We could not even look at them.  As I was explaining about the dining room.  The girls were on one side and the boys were on the other side.  Sometimes, we’d sneak and look at them a little bit.  Of course!  When they catch you looking at the girls, then, they would scold you.  They told us, because they were girls, we were not to look at them.  We would be told about this.

Peter Irniq:  You must have been wanting to be with one another as relatives?

Lazarie Otak: 
Yes, very much.  We would sneak a smile with our relatives, without being seen by the supervisors.  We would smile a little with them.  Perhaps, this was the only one way of showing that we were related, we would smile.  Aside from smiling, we were forbidden to talk to them.  When we see our relatives, we would hide a smile, between us.  We would smile at our sisters, and our cousins.  We would smile at them a little bit, making sure that no one noticed us.  They were our relatives, perhaps, it’s like that. 

Peter Irniq:  When you see your relatives, inside or outside of the hostel, and when they catch you talking with your sister or your cousins, what do you think, would have happen to you?

Lazarie Otak:  As I mention earlier, I tried not to do things that I was not supposed to do, thinking that I would be made to pay for it.  I tried not to do the kinds of things that I wasn’t supposed to do, so it’s something I tend to follow to this day.  Things that I was not supposed to do, I try to avoid doing them but look, I am just a human being too.  When they had all kinds of rules that we were not supposed to do, I could not understand why, we were not allowed to do things at that time.  For example, I did not understand why, we were not allowed to talk to our relatives for example. 

Peter Irniq:  When the fall time and winter came, they did provide you with clothing for winter?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes.  They also provided us with Kamiik(boots), I think they are the boots invtented by the Indians, they are called in English mocasins.  They would get holes on the bottom sole very quickly.  When they got holes, we used to repair them ourselves, when they would get too many holes.  We were made to sew them by ourselves. 

Peter Irniq:  What about your outer wear, such as your jackets and wind pants?  What did they look like?

Lazarie Otak:  I remember mostly my boots, the ones that are called moccasins.  I don’t exactly remember the upper and lower clothing that we had, I don’t remember them exactly what they were like.  I remember my boots in particular.  I particularly remember about the fact that we had rubber boots as well.  Rubber boots we had were red bottom and had laces.  I even remember the type of in soles they had.  I remember them very well, perhaps because, I was very attached to my own Inuit kamiik(boots). 

Peter Irniq:  When you got there in 1960, did they send you out to trap foxes, out on the land?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, we used to walk out on the land.  Each Saturday, we would go out on the land to go and set up our traps.  This would be our routine activity, every Saturday, during the trapping season. 

Peter Irniq:  Did you have to walk far away, sometimes?

Lazarie Otak: 
Yes.  For example, we would leave after lunch at noon, and we would be out until about 4 or 5 in the afternoon.  They allowed us one trap each.  We would set up that trap on the land out there somewhere, and that’s the one, we would go out to check, to see if it caught a fox. 

Peter Irniq:
  Did you ever catch a fox?

Lazarie Otak:  I caught one fox.  Only one time!  But I don’t remember where the money went to, from the sale of the fox.  Perhaps, I got some of it.  But I know, they(the hostel) took the other part of the money, what was left over. 

Peter Irniq: By the Sisters?

Lazarie Otak:
  Yes.  I don’t know where they put it.  Perhaps, they used it for something.

Peter Irniq: 
They didn’t tell you about what this money that is left over, will be used for this?  They didn’t say that to you?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, not at all! 

Peter Irniq: The money that was left over, that was yours, what did you use it for, at that time?

Lazarie Otak:  The bit of money that belonged to us, had a small pouch with a number on it, a number that was our own number, the money that was ours, was in a safe, keyed into a safe.  When I requested some money on a certain day, then they would give me some and only on Fridays.  I was only allowed ten cents.  

Peter Irniq:  What did you get for 10 cents?

Lazarie Otak:  A chocolate bar.  It would not buy anything else, so I only got a chocolate bar. 

Peter Irniq:  In 1960, chocolate bar was very cheap, eh?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes.  It was 10 cents, or it could be have been 12 cents.  We were not allowed to go anywhere else, around the hostel area.  So, I used that opportunity to go to the Hudson’s Bay Company store. 

Peter Irniq:  Why did you buy a chocolate bar and not buy something else?

Lazarie Otak:  There was nothing else that cost 10 cents.  There were other things that I could have bought but there was nothing that cost 10 cents, so that was the only thing that I could have bought for 10 cents, so I bought it. 

Peter Irniq:  At the hostel, did you ever have something that was as delicious as a chocolate bar?

Lazarie Otak:  Candies.  When we were good, they used to give us one candy.  That was part of the routine. 

Peter Irniq: 
Looking back to that time, even though it seemed very far now from today, they used to let us walk on the land, even though we were little boys, to make us go check our traps and things like that,  a good thing was, there were no nanuit(polar bears) then, eh?

Lazarie Otak: Yes, yes, absolutely!  I will use this individual as an example, who is now deceased, his name was Andre Utuqqaq, he was from here.  I was walking with him to check our traps, and while we were walking, we saw four wolves.  My companion, he took some rocks and said, “shall we go towards them?” and insisting that we go, I said, “no, we could be mauled by them!”  I kept him from going over to the wolves, in cases we were attacked and mauled by the wolves.  He kept wanting to go but I persuaded him not to do it.  The good thing is we went back home and not attacked by the wolves. 

Peter Irniq:  Good thing, you went back home.

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, I said to him no, and as a result, we didn’t go to them.

Peter Irniq: 
At that time, what type of weapons did you have, besides the rocks?

Lazarie Otak:  We had a small knife, probably the same size or the same type as the ones, we used for eating at the hostel.  We also used to bring with us some fish for bait at our fox traps, probably part of the fish that we ate at the hostel.   That was about all, we brought with us, nothing else!

Peter Irniq:  When you were at the hostel, you obviously knew some Inuit from Chesterfield Inlet, were you able to visit them at their homes?

Lazarie Otak:  Not at all!  We never used to see them aside from the Church.  Or other than the school itself.  We only saw the ones that worked now and then at the hostel.  We never used to see them besides going to church, at the school as well as when we would go to the movies(every Friday night).  We would not see them aside from that. 

Peter Irniq:  What about your supervisors, who were really big bosses at the hostel, was there Inuit staff?

Lazarie Otak:  I remember this when we they were about to close the hostel, in a year or two, there were some Inuit staff.  But, prior to that, I don’t remember any Inuit staff. 

Peter Irniq:  At the school, what type of subjects did they teach you?

Lazarie Otak:  Arthmetic. Social Studies.  Science.  Subjects that you learn at a regular school.  One, I remember most was,  we learned about Jacque Cartier, Samuel de Champlain,  Henry Hudson, and we would learn about Ivan Ho(sp), we learned about Qablunaat subjects, or about the Heroes of the Qablunaat, that was what they taught us about. 

Peter Irniq:  You talked about learning about Jacque Cartier, or Samuel de Champlain, you were obviously impacted by them?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes.  To this day, I can relate to them, as they taught us about them, in those days, I know who they were, and what they were doing, and why they came.

Peter Irniq:  You talked about learning about the Europeans, do you remember learning about Inuit culture or Inuit language?

Lazarie:  Not at all.  We did not learn anything about our culture, our language, or our writing system of syllabics.  We were only taught about the ways of the Europeans and their culture and language.  I only remember learning about these things very well. 

Peter Irniq:  You mean, about the land of Southern Canadians?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, about their culture in Southern Canada.  I was even learning to make a drawing of a tree, even though, I had never seen trees in my life.  We were told to draw a tree.  Only because, I had seen pictures of trees, so I drew a picture of a tree, with apples and all. 

Peter Irniq:  Were we able to speak Inuktitut inside the class?

Lazarie Otak:  Absolutely not!  We were able to speak Inuktitut, only by hiding, and when our teacher was not around and aware of speaking Inuktitut.  When our teacher would leave for a few minutes for whatever reason, then we would speak to each other in Inuktitut for a little bit.  But, as long as the teacher was around, we were not allowed to speak our Inuktitut language, under no circumstances!

Peter Irniq:  If you were speaking in Inuktitut to your fellow class member, what do you think, would have happened to you?

Lazarie Otak:  I had to get my hands ready for being hit.  I don’t know how many times, I had to do this.  Perhaps, when I was caught speaking Inuktitut without noticing, I would be hit with a yardstick, like this!  At most times, they just didn’t slap you, they actually hit you, with a yardstick.  You had to open your hand like this, and show the palm of your hand.  When you had your hand like this, it mean’t that you were ready to be hit, by the teacher. 

Peter Irniq:  Was it painful?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, of course.  Some people got it worse!  Absolutely worse!  There was a very scary and intimidating teacher.  I was very scared particularly of that teacher.  The student he was teaching for example, when he or she, wasn’t able to learning that they were being taught, although he/she wanted to learn a lot and it was obvious, they would be so scared, they would start to cry.  Even when they were crying, he would be really scolding him or her.  He would grab them like this, and would throw them against the wall.  I did see that. 

Peter Irniq:  He would throw them against the wall?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, against the wall!  He would grab them like this and throw them.  Especially, when they were not able to understand about what they were being taught. 

Peter Irniq:  And he would be shouting very loudly and scolding him or her at the same time? 

Lazarie Otak:  Yes.  He would be screaming at them as well.  He would be screaming so much that the whole school, might have heard him. 

Peter Irniq:  He was a big man, that teacher?

Lazarie Otak: 
Yes, he was our teacher.

Peter Irniq:  Is it part of Inuit culture to scold people by screaming.  Do you know if this part of our culture?

Lazarie Otak:  Absolutely not!  I don’t remember anything like this from my mother and father, who would be scolding so loudly by screaming.  I remember being scolded, only when I had to be scolded.  I remember this very well.  I don’t remember being hurt by my mother and father, to the point where  I would be painful.  I perhaps was scolded  only one time by my parents.  Only because, they had to do it. 

Peter Irniq:  So, in your opinion, when the students, who were unable to do what the teacher says, when they were being scolded, do you think, they were scolded like, overboard?

Lazarie Otak: 
Yes, too much! 

Peter Irniq:  Way over?!

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, way over!  I remember one student that this teacher hit.  He had a gold ring with that was made to resemble bugs and on the ring, there were some parts sticking out, so when he was so mad at this girl, he hit her really, really hard with it.  The girl was hurt and he was very hurt on his finger, from his ring.  Instead of looking after the girl, he ended up looking after his finger. 

The teacher who used to scold so much at the school, did you ever try to do something to him, yourself?

Lazarie Otak:  Not me, personally.  I hold certain amount of faith in me.  I think about that person, and sometimes, I think about part of that verse that says, “as we forgive those, who trespass against us”, I think about that sometimes.  Even though, I think about it, sometimes I am merely fooling myself, because, what they did to us, are very hard to forget, and difficult to easily forgive. 

Peter Irniq:  Today as an adult, if you were to see your old teacher today, what would you say to him?

Lazarie Otak:  I have seen him already, as an adult.  He was also teaching in Grise Fiord.  When he was in Iqaluit for a meeting, I saw him there.  I was also a teacher at the time.  I saw him then, and I noticed, he was trying to be distant away from me.  Perhaps, he recognized me and I also told him, who I was.  He was trying to be distant from me, and did not want to be around me, at the time. 

Peter Irniq:  Perhaps he was scared now!

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, perhaps, he got scared then.  It was not my intention to do something to him, as my faith in religion was strong, particularly that part that says, “forgive those who trespass against us”.  This was something I tried to hold on to within inside me.  I wanted it to be truthful.  But sometimes, it is hard to be true to it. 

Peter Irniq:  Those went to school in Chesterfield Inlet and other Aboriginal people, such as the First Nations, today, they talk about having been sexually abused as little children, were you aware of little children being abused?

Lazarie Otak: 
Yes absolutely.  I myself was sexually abused.  I can tell you what this now deceased person once said to me, that Pierre Quasa to me, that he used to see children being sexually abused.  I am thankful for to him for this for him telling me about it.  He, for example, supported what I said about sexual abuses.  For this, I am thankful to him to this day.  Because of his support to what I said, it made me feel that I was telling the truth.  Yes, he told me, he saw children being abused.  For this, I am very thankful to him, especially about what I said about us or children being abused. 

Peter Irniq:  So, you were sexually abused yourself?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, I want to talk about this as I want it to eventually go away and not have to hold it within me, forever.  As long as I talk about it, some of it goes away, bit by bit. We were told, not to tell anyone at all about it.  We were never going to tell anyone.  We were paid for being sexually abused.  We would be given one candy.  After they did this to us, they would give us one candy as a payment.  I remember this crisply clear. 

Peter Irniq:  Who was it that was doing this to you?  Was it a priest, a sister or a brother?

Lazarie Otak:    By a brother.  We always used to think, he was a very nice man, perhaps because, we were little children.  Perhaps, we were scared, we would just make ourselves available, and not being able to do anything about it.  I think, perhaps, we were scared and that he was going to give us a candy.  The one who used to do this to us, when I would see him in the Church, I used to wonder, “is he praying?”  I used to think like that.  For him to do what he did to us, and being in the church at the same time as him, it had a lot of impact on us. 

Peter Irniq:  That Brother?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes. 

Peter Irniq:  About what happened to you, is there any more that you want to tell?  How did they do it, did they take your pants off?

Lazarie Otak:  They would take our pants off.  Then, I’ll tell it all.  They would suck our penises!  It was a Brother, who was doing this to us.  He would suck us, we did not know whether this was part of a culture or a way of life, as little children, we were too small to understand.  As I said, we didn’t understand all of it, whether it was a way of life or not.  But, I understood one thing myself that we were not to do this. 

Peter Irniq:  As Inuit, this was not practiced?

Lazarie Otak: 
Yes.  When you never had anything like this done, it was scary and embarrassing.  Even to this day, it is very difficult to talk about it publically.  It’s very embarrassing.  It’s like, when you talk about it, you are going to be laughed at.  The thing is we are still keeping these things inside us, even to this day. 

Peter Irniq:  To this day, those who went to Chesterfield Inlet to go to school there, they talk about having been sexually abused at the hostel, or inside the school, and at the Roman Catholic Mission in particular, is it something that you feel, you are heavily impacted by it?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, very much.  You are heavily impacted, I can say that since I am heavily impacted by it, I can honestly say, I cannot have a wife.  I tired to live with a wife numerous times, but I cannot succeed in a relationship.  I am not saying, I am for another man.  Only because, I was sexually abused by a man, I became one, it is not like that.  I look at women, that they are made for men.  To see men doing these things to each other, it is not right in my own thinking.  Yes, they are free to do these things but, to me, it doesn’t seem right, to see men being married together, for example.  To me, it is not right.  Yes, they have agreed among themselves to do these things but they did it to us, when we did not agreed to be abused like that. 

Peter Irniq:  It’s like, they took away your childhood?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes!  It was taken away from us.  We were not to tell about it.  It was like, they put a zipper on your mouth and put a padlock, so that you would not be able to talk about it.  It took a long time but when I was healing about all this, I was told, “if you are trying to hold on to these things inside, they will want to get out, in other ways.  Perhaps, when you are drinking, or other through other ways, that bad things might come out of you instead.  But, as long as you keep talking about, eventually, you will get rid of it.  That was what was told to me, this is why, I talk about it to get rid of it, by talking about it, bit by bit. 

Peter Irniq:
  If you were to see the person who did this to you, or others, who did these things, what are feeling or thinking about them today?  Are you angry at them in a very big way?  What are you thinking today?

Peter Irniq:  Regarding this question, I sometimes don’t know at all, how to answer it but I did say previously, that when I am praying, I talked about forgiveness.  But, sometimes it is very hard, because I am still very angry at them in some ways.  Some other ways, I am asking why they did those things to us but the strongest one that I keep coming back to is the fact they did not wanted us to tell any one.  Because they told us not to tell any one, so we kept our mouths shut, for a long time, in ways, that it was too long to be silent!  If I were to see the man facing me, I would ask him directly, “why did you do these things to me?”  I would want to understand why?  Why?  Because of your actions then, I am the way, I am today.  Why did you make me, the way, I am today?  I would want to ask him those questions. 

Peter Irniq:  You are obviously heavily impacted with your life today.  Did you start drinking alcohol heavily?

Lazarie Otak:
  Yes.  It was like alcohol became my team, my partner.  Alcohol was such a big partner that any bottle that I had, I had to make sure, it was finished.  I was drinking so much, I would no longer know what I was doing.  It was a way for me, to forget what happened to me.  I was merely trying to forget what happened.  I was trying very hard to hide things.  For quite some time, I was trying to find all this, and this is what I had found out about myself. 

Peter Irniq:  Today, are you journeying to heal, regarding what happened?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, at one point.  But today, we’ve used alcohol  so much, so we talk about it today.  And we do this every week.  I talk to other people, why, I used too much alcohol.  While using it, I was taken into custody, so I talk about these.  When you are drinking, you can do anything, every is possible!  You are no longer embarrassed to talk about thing.  I was too tune to the booze and I was trying to heal with booze.  Then, I thought, I will not heal by using booze.  By talking about it, then I will begin to heal.  I cannot say that when I talk about a little thing, I heal from it.  I cannot say that. 

Peter Irniq:  Ever since you started healing process, where and from whom, did you get your strength from?

Lazarie Otak:  Where did I get my strength from.  It’s been two months since I got my grandchild.  That little child has give me, strength.  That child is helping me, like my mother used to play with me.  Over at the school, I would never get that kind of loving.  This love that I got from my mother, I gave it to my children and my grandchildren.  I try to give them the strength of love, as we were never given that kind of opportunity to love at the residential school.  Even when we wanted to cry, we were often told:  “don’t cry, you are big, you are a big boy now.!”  This crying, they had me to take it away from me.  For example, my father died when I was there, I didn’t even cry for him.  I was told never to cry, any more.  It was let go from me, and no longer was I holding it.  Then, I was told not to cry.  For a long time, I could not cry.  And when I was taking a healing course, I was told, if you could laugh, then you could cry too.  They taught me how to cry when I was healing, so today, I am taking back the crying from myself. 

Peter Irniq:  The people who went to a residential school, do you get their help with journey of healing, today?

Lazarie Otak: 
Sometimes, yes.  And sometimes no.  I know some of them, were in worse situation than I was.  Some of them are healing bit by bit.  Just today, I said to someone, the day after tomorrow, do you remember what it was?  It’s going to be May 15.  Yes, he said, he remembere what May 15 was.  To me, May 15 is a very important day, it was the day, when we would return home here.  It was very important because on this day, we were going to see our mothers and fathers, those were the indications.  Although, it has been a long time ago now, I keep holding on to May 15, as a very important day. 

Peter Irniq:
  At that time (1993 July), we the Survivors of that Residential School, we went to Chesterfield Inlet, to have a reunin, and to talk about having been sexually abused.  Did that meeting help you or the other people, who went to school there?

Lazarie Otak:  To me, it was very helpful.  It provided further help to me, personally.  I was able to stand up taller, I was able to cry again and was no longer embarrassed  about what happened to me.  It was no longer embarrassing to talk about it and knew, I was not going to be laughed at, when I talk about it.  That was what it was. 

Peter Irniq: 
Did you understand that you were no alone?

Lazarie Otak:   Yes.  As I mention earlier, when we were being sexually abused, there used to be several of us and remembering what Pierre had said.  But I tell you, to this day, the children, who were abused at the same time as me, they are not recognizeable to this day.  I want to recognize who they were.  We would be set up in a way, that this person was here and this person was there, that was how it was done to us.  To this day, I cannot see the other children, perhaps, when this man was doing it to me, it had quite a lot of impact on me.  Perhaps, I was embarrassed being abused in front of them, I don’t know.  I cannot totally understand this. 

Peter Irniq:  When we had our meeting in Chesterfield Inlet in July 1993, we invited the Bishop of the Hudson Bay Roman Catholic Diocese, to hear, and to say something if he wanted to and had something to say.  He made a half-ass apology, did that apology helped any?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, it had a little help to me.  When he apologized, he acknowledge some, that it was like that the way we said it.  If he had never apologized, he would have said the contrary, that nothing like that ever happened.  To me, that was what it would have mean’t.  When he apologized, he admitted that this was what we did, we are sorry about it.  As soon as he said, I am sorry, he mean’t, that was what they did to you, I am sorry about it. 

On February 27, 1996, he again came here to officially apologise to us here in Iglulik.  He made his official apology through TV and was seen all across Canada, in fact entire world.  The thing is, what we were allowed to go through in Chesterfield Inlet, the hard times we faced, do you think, more Canadians should hear about these things?

Lazarie Otak:  I think, they should be heard more by Canadians.  We want to tell the truth.  We are not going to tell a lie.  If we lie, it would mean that we are merely promoting ourselves.  That is my feeling.  We have to tell the truth and be understood, most of all.  I know that we will never be fully understood.  I want the survivors of residential school be understood.  This is why, I agreed to be asked about it. 

Peter Irniq:  Were you compensated when they were giving out monies for the survivors?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes. 

Peter Irniq:  What do you think of the compensation monies?

Lazarie Otak: 
  I wanted to make sure that I will use the monies that I am getting for a good cause.  I did not wanted to mis-use them, as when I was there at the residential school, I went through a very hard time.  I wanted to spend them for me but I have relatives too, such as my daugthter, I thought to myself, I have to help them too.  I have an older brother and a sister, but I used them to help my immediate family.  I did not spend it only for myself.  I originally said, I am going to only use it for myself.  I am already giving some anyways, from the monies that I make from my work.  I wanted to make sure that I spend them wisely.  I probably did not spend all of it wisely.  I also felt, or though, they would have an end, one day.  As a result, I cannot spend money, just to be happy. 

Peter Irniq:  Last year, the Members of Parliament made a symbolic apology in House, what did you think of that?

Lazarie Otak:  As I said earlier, they also apologized in part, to us.  But, they did not apologized all the way.  I have not heard anyone say this at all as of yet.  I have not heard the Prime Minister of Canada, apologizing to those of you survivors, that you were abused, I have not heard anyone say that to this moment.  If he come and say that, I would probably be more relaxed.  Perhaps.  It seems like, those of us that are survivors of that residential school, we are always in some kind of a state of tention.  I think the apology would allow us to feel more at ease and relax more, I think, this is the way, I would feel. 

Peter Irniq:  If you would be able to see the Prime Minister of Canada, in front of you, as you are with me now, what would you say to him?

Lazarie Otak:  I would ask, why did you build schools like that?  For what reasons, did they have turn our backs to our mothers and fathers, I would ask him that kind of questions.  Why did you send us to another school, to Inuit land, when we had school in here already?  Why did we have Brother, priests, and Sisters to be our Supervisors?  Especially those, who cannot marry.  Why did you provide us with foundations with those were not “mothers?”  I would ask him questions like that. 

Peter Irniq:  Would you tell him that we’ve lost our culture, our language, and our ability to provide good parenting?  For those of us, who went to school there.  Do you believe that? 

Lazarie Otak:  Absolutely yes!  I truly believe that.  Those that I got to hold from the residential school over there are that, I cannot go out hunting.  I was told, yes, you can go out hunting.  I was told that you can go from your home to your place of work.  But, to be out on the land, yes, I can build an iglu, obviously, but, I cannot tell whether the ice is thin and is not safe or not, I do not know.  I can tell a bit if it is not safe to go through but I have never gone down to the moving ice at the edge of the ice(where people go out and seal hunt).  I have never been there.  People from Iglulik go out to the moving when they are going out to catch walruses or something, but me, I have not even been down there, not even once.  Here I am 56 years old.  This is because, I do not hold any Inuit culture.  Even the younger people, who are younger than I am, they go out to the moving ice, so as to make sure that their relatives have food.  Like I said before, I was told, I go to the office every morning, to work to make sure that my family has food.  They said, I could look at this like hunting.  But, this work wages is not quite the same as hunting.  Being a man on the land and the office is not quite the same, here in the Arctic.  Perhaps, like that. 

Peter Irniq:  When we were there, is it like, we decided to drop our Inuitness or Inuit being?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, absolutely.  I once had a woman, who once told me that I look like an Inuk but I think, like a Whiteman.  That was precisely what I was told.  It’s like, I have to have breakfast, lunch and supper, these are the kind of things that I still hold to this day.  This is the culture of the Whiteman.  Even the food I eat on my plate, I have to eat all of it, even though, I may not find it completely delicious.  What I hold is something I was even trying to pass on to my children.  I later found out that I don’t have to do all this, they don’t have to be like me.  I did notice this about myself. 

Peter Irniq: 
So, we were being sent to Chesterfield Inlet, to be assimilated into the Whiteman’s world?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, we were.  I was even told, “you are like a potatoe”, that was Sister Allard.  She told me, “you’re like a potatoe”.  “What do you mean, Sister?” I asked her.  “You’re brown outside and white inside.”  She told me.  She told me that I was like a little White boy, brown on the outside and white on the inside.  Maybe because, I was doing things too much the Whiteman’s way.  That was what she said to me, “you’re like a potatoe.”

Peter Irniq: 
Are you taking back your Inuitness or Inuit being today?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes.  I am trying to take back my culture and also having other Inuit around.  Particularly the language.  This is using, the real Inuit way.  I am taking back, having “callings”such as “My uncle” for example.  But I am not holding on to a lot of it right now.  I notice about this myself but more so, I am noticed by my own children.  I am reminded of this at times.  You are too much like this.  “Why are you doing this, dad?”  Sometimes, they tell me this.  I don’t answer them immediately, trying to figure why, I am like that.  So, what I’ve taken from over there, what they were trying to make a Whiteman out of me,  to this day, I am holding on to them.  I notice this abut me frequently. 

Peter Irniq:  I want to return to sexual abuses, did you have any one to complain to?

Lazarie Otak:  Absolutely not!  We were not to tell anybody.  Even when we were having confessions with the priest,  we would not tell about those under no circumstances, while we were having confessions.  We were not to tell.  It was embarrassing.  They knew also what was going on.  Some Sister knew what was going on.  I believe they used to know that Brothers were doing these to us.  I remember them talking in French to each other, they would be frowning at each other in a real big way.  I think, I can safely say, they knew what was happening. 

Peter Irniq:  Roman Catholic Pope, when he went to the United States recently, he was apologizing to the victims of sexual abuses by the Roman Catholic priests in America,  if he would come to Inuit Homelands or to Canada, and apologise to us, do you  think this would be the right thing to do?

Lazarie Otak: Yes.  I want to be able to say something to him, please let your Roman Catholic priests be able to marry!  Let your Sister be able to marry!  I would say to him, they are just human beings, and able to feel just like anyone else, why do you allow them to marry.  Let them have husbands!  This is what I would say to him, so that they would not do abuses again.  Perhaps, they would abuse less but, by being married with wives and husbands, they would do less of this, this is what I would tell him. 

Peter Irniq:  What about learning how to read and write English and add arithmetic.  Was this good or bad?  What can you say about that?

Lazarie Otak:  I can say, it was good but we paid a very high price for it.  I say it was good because up to now, I can be working for wages.  Up to now, I can pay for my own house.  Today, the young people who graduate up to Grade 12, this is hard to believe.  When these young people, when they cannot do things in English, they come and ask me.  Here, I only have grade 8 and they have grade 12, wow!  It makes you think that is today’s education, weaker than the one, we attended at Residential School?  Or is what is wrong with it?  We were very well educated in part, for this, I am very thankful.  And now, I can work for wages.  I can have a good job and be thankful for it.  But the high price part of it, I am not thankful for it. 

The high price is the fact that, I am not able to hold on to a marriage, the fact that I cannot participate, at a large gathering of people, that’s the high price I paid.  I cannot go to a place where everyone is happy and having a big feast.  That’s the high price.  When everyone else goes to a midnight mass at Christmas, I cannot go!  Nothing!  I cannot go to dances at Christmas time!  Perhaps, I still hold a lot of the things that were done to us,  I don’t think at all of going to places where a lot of people are gathering.  I am just fine staying home alone.  When people are out there, very happy, celebrating, for example, even if I know, there are going to be prizes won, well, I won’t go to them at all.  I won’t go to meetings at all.  Perhaps, I am still holding on to embarrassing things.  We were often told not tell anyone.  So, to be seen too much by people, I am embarrassed by that. 

Peter Irniq:  do you have any other things to say, something that I have not asked about?

Lazarie Otak:
  I was sent to that Residential School for eight years.  I would go home here for only three months at a time.  I was told by someone, who never went  there, “wow, I am envious, that you went over there to go to school.”  “No, it’s something that is not envious at all!”  “Why are you envious?” I said.  He said, “look, you can have a very good job, you can speak very good English”, when he was saying that to me, I said, but it was a very high price.  It is indeed a very high price, for me.  I can use some of my own Inuit life but I don’t use a lot of it.  The thing is, we cannot go with the people, who are having a great time, telling all kinds of jokes, perhaps this is another big price that we paid. 

Peter Irniq:
  Canadian Government established a  body, known as Truth and Reconciliation Commission, if this organization could come to Inuit communities, only if they could come to Inuit communities, and if you are given opportunity to speak,  what would you like to say to them?

Lazarie Otak: 
Here is what I would like to be able to tell them.  Let us tell the truth and let us make ourselves aware about reconciliation.  Let us be truthful about it, and work towards “Inuuqatigiikpaallirniq” “a case of being good neighbors.”  Let us all work towards the truth and be able to live in harmony with each other.  Let us be truthful about all this, and try to get rid of what I describe earlier, about being such hard stuff.  Let us try to get rid of that tension. 

It’s like when I see someone at a distance.  I can tell just by looking at that person walking, I can tell they are not happy.  By observing people, with the way they walk, they are not happy.  Those that went to that residential school, are in worse situations, just by looking at them walking, they are very noticeable, that there is something wrong.  They won’t say anything but,  just the way they walk, or by observing their body language, you can tell, they are not totally happy.  I wish those of us, who are survivors, can meet with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, I wish we could bring out to public and open everything about what happened to us, even though, things that we might say, may not all be wonderful.  We need to put them out to public, so that we can finally begin to be more positive.  This is as long as we can talk about them truthfully, about what happened to us.  I know some will not talk about what happened to them.  When we talk about some of them, some tend to get angry about them.  Some people cannot even say, brother or sister, they just can’t let them out.  These are the people who are my fellow-community members.  They are easily reminded of the words, brother, sister, or father, words they’ve learned from over there.  I can say the words but make no mistake, they were not my brothers, sisters or fathers.  I can say that for sure. 

Peter Irniq:
  When you got there for the first time, your own clothes were put away right away and you were given new clothes.  Can you talk about other things that you observed while you were there?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, as I said earlier, we had a large building that had three storeys.  There was invisible boundry, where we were not supposed to go.  We had our own playground and we could not go beyond certain areas, because of that invisible boundry.  We were not allowed to go beyond those invisible boundries.  Here we were at a Inuit community, and yet, we were not to enter their houses.  When we wanted to visit them, we were not allowed.  There was a limit to how far we could go to play outside, at our play ground, but only within that invisible boundry.  We could not go beyond that boundry.  When we were playing outside, we got to know our own limits, as to where we should go or not go.  We were not allowed to go beyond the limits.  Here we could see the little boys from Chesterfield Inlet.  Once in a while, they would come to see us.  Sometimes, we would play with them.  The thing was, we could not go to them, we could not go to their homes.  That was our routine, and they were also Inuit.  Our freedom had limits!  When we got back home, we took our freedom for granted, sometimes, we went overboard.  Perhaps, that was what we were doing.  Here at home, we also had limits or boundries.  This was because of the religious organizatins.  Over there, there was a real boundry.  When we were going to church for example, there was a trail, that we had to follow.  We were not to walk through somewhere else.  We had to make sure that we walked through the established trail.  We were not to run somewhere else and go to church.  We were not to walk through in between the houses of Chesterfield Inlet, the only way to go to church was through walking along that trail or walkway.  There was not actual road, but just a trail. 

Peter Irniq:  There were also some White People’s houses, have you ever visited these homes or no?

Lazarie Otak:  It was fun going there for example, especially when I had to bring a telegram.  These buildings were Department of Transport Buildings.  Wow, it was fun to go there, I am going to a place that I had never seen before.  I had to have a partner to go over, as we were not allowed to go alone.  When you got into their buildings, it was beautiful.  It was like going outside of Chesterfield Inlet.  Otherwise, we would not have gone to their place, even though, they were our community-people.  It is probably for this reason, that I am not able to go into places where there are a lot of people, together.  This is perhaps because, I am still holding on to many things from Chesterfield Inlet.  This is what I think, sometimes. 

Peter Irniq:  You were told to bring things that needed to be read or something?

Lazarie Otak:  As an example, when someone got a letter or when they had to send letters out, that we were told to bring over to be sent out through communications. 

Peter Irniq:  Do you remember those Halloweens?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, absolutely! 

Peter Irniq:  What did you think the meaning was?

Lazarie Otak: 
The meaning for me was that, we were going to do something different.  I didn’t know the meaning of the Halloween but doing different things for a little bit.  We were going to go to places, where we had never been to before.  That was a fun thing to do. 

Peter Irniq:  Haloween was like “aimmiriaqtuq” or “going out to beg” in English.  Is that right?  Did you go to Inuit homes, to Inuit houses?

Lazarie Otak:  No, I don’t think so, we were told to go to White People’s Houses including teacher’s houses.  I don’t remember going into Inuit houses at all. 

Peter Irniq: 
We were instructed to go to White People’s Houses only.  You remember that one very well?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes. 

Peter Irniq:  The bag that you were given, what did they put in it?

Lazarie Otak:  Candies I think, things that we didn’t get at the hostel.  They also gave us some pop corn and things like that.  They didn’t give us a lot.  And when we got them to the hostel, we were not free to do whatever we wanted to with them.  It was like, taking some of what we got, after meals, then, we would be able to get something from the bags.  Only after a meal, I was allowed to take one thing from the bag, that was given to me.  As a child, you wanted to take all of them.  Only thing we were allowed to do was to choose one thing at a time.  I remember this very well. 

Peter Irniq:  Do you remember eating anything that was sweet at the hostel?

Lazarie Otak:  As I said earlier, the bannock I made and tea were somewhat delicious.  Perhaps it was because, I was already used to eating them.  Other things, I could not quite get used to eating, fish for example, that had guts in them.  I don’t remember eating something that was really delicious at that place. 

Peter Irniq:  One day, we were told to go to DOT houses one Saturday, do you remember this?

Lazarie Otak:  Not at all, I don’t remember this.  It seems like DOT Houses were far.  But when we had a meeting in Chesterfield Inlet in (1993), they were very close.  I guess, as children, we thought they were far, but when I saw them again, as an adult, they were very close.  I remember them being far. 

Peter Irniq:  What about the Inuit of Chesterfield Inlet at the time.  Were you able to visit them?

Lazarie Otak:  No.  When we were first there, not at all, we were not allowed to visit them.  At that time, I was able to recognize them by their faces, as I got used to seeing them at the church or when we went to the movies.  I was able to recognize them, but never knew what their names were, or who they were.  I did not know their names.  It was like this, we were not allowed by fellow-Inuit with the locals.  I don’t think, we were allowed to talk to them or say something to them, aside from the person who was a janitor at the school.  We were able to say a thing or two, as he used to come to us, once in a while. 

Peter Irniq:  While in Chesterfield Inlet, do you remember a very happy situation or something that was very funny, something that made you laugh?

Lazarie Otak:  No, not at all!  I don’t remember anything that was fun and something that made me laugh really hard.  I don’t remember anything at all.  I can’t even say, “good thing, we did this, while we were still in Chesterfield Inlet.”  I cannot say anything like that at all.  I don’t remember anything that I can relate to, in a way where I can say, “at least, we did this in Chesterfield Inlet.” Other than the fact that, we were there to go to school. 

Peter Irniq:  When you first got to Chesterfield Inlet and went to the hostel, there were all kinds of rules, some of them you mentioned already, did they have rules about toilet papers too?  Did they teach you about the usage of the toilet paper, such as “here is the line, you fold it three times, then wipe yourself, and if you have to wipe yourself some more, then you fold it in two, and then…did the Grey Nuns, teach you that too?

Lazarie Otak:  Yes, absolutely!  They taught how to use the toilet paper, and told us to tear in after folding it twice, along those little lines.  Even though, no one was watching us in the wasrhoom, we would follow their instructions.  If you didn’t follow them, it was scary!  The Nuns also taught you about how to pee, they said, if you pee, don’t flush the toilet, flush it only, if you had a shit.  Those were the rules.  Every morning, we had to wash our faces, and comb our hair.  We had to brush our teeth.  Those rules were not our rules at home, previously so when they were applied to us, they were very foreign to us.  Every Saturday, we were made to have a bath.  That was how it was. 

Peter Irniq:  That’s it, the end.

Filmmaker: Zacharias Kunuk

Year of Production: 2008

Country: Canada

Region: Nunavut

See more

ᑐᑭᓯᒋᐊᕐᕖᑦ: Testimony I Residential Schools

    • 1h 56m 16s

      Peter Irniq Testimony

      uploaded by: Zacharias Kunuk

      channel: Truth and Reconciliation

      Click on 'Read More' for English Translation of Testimony by Peter Irniq, May 2008

      English Translation of Testimony by Peter Irniq, May 12, 2008, Iglulik, Nunavut

      Peter Irniq: We had a terrible Hudson’s Bay Trader back in 1956, like many of these people, were terrible. That summer in 1956, the Dew Line ships came and when left later on, they left a whole lot of material. Some things like pellets beach along the shore line, so one day, my father and Celestino and his father, walked over to where these pellets were beached, with the idea of taking them back to our tent. When we got there, the two adults, Celestino’s father and my father tie up the pellets with a seal skin rope, and Celestino’s father, started to pull the pellets back to his tent. Right at this point, this Bay Manager came along with his Jeep. With his was his girlfriend, even though, he was married. Well, me I took a beached light bulb, that was no longer going to be used, as I wanted it as my toy. Just when the Bay Manager was coming up, my father said to Amarualik, who was pulling the pellets, back to his tent. “He’s coming to get you!” meaning, the Bay Manager. He dropped his load and ran like heck to his tent, running away from the Bay Manager. My father waited for the Bay Manager to stop. When he stopped, he ordered my father not to touch the pellets. “Don’t touch those pellets, they will be used again.” My father responded in Inuktitut that translated into something like this: “You are a big lyer!” Then, he pointed to the woman inside the jeep and said to the Bay Manager, “she will be used again, stop being with her!”

      That night Amarualik came over to visit and while drinking tea, they had a great big laugh about what happened that day. All they wanted to do was to use the pellets for qamutiik(sleigh) cross bars. The thing was, nothing was going to happen to the two men or the two of us boys. They were also not going to re-use the burned out light bulbs.

      Zach Kunuk: Perhaps, you could tell a story about where you were born.

      Peter Irniq: Yes, I was born in Naujaarjuat(A place of plentiful seagulls fledgelings) Lyon Inlet. My parents are known around here in the Amittuq, particularly by Elders. My father’s name was Angutitaq and my mother’s name was Katak. My sister’s name was Iguttaq. My older brother’s name was Ipuittuq Ivaluqut. Prior to my birth, they used to live around here. They lived here, perhaps from around 1940 to about 1946. At that particular period of time, they traveled by dog team from Gjoa Haven’s Utkuhiksalik(Back River) to Naujaat’s Ukkusiksalik(Repulse Bay’s Wager Bay). They lived there for a time, then they traveled this way through Naujaat-Repulse Bay, Sanirajak(Hall Beach) and then to Iglulik. They traveled all the way here, by dog team only. They used to talk a lot about people from this Region. When I became an adult, I got to meet the people they met and I used to say to myself, “oh those are the people, that my parents used to talk about”.

      Over there, we never lived really in the community of Naujaat – the Settlement, as we were true Inuit, living off the land traditionally. We were true Inuit, with truly living the Inuit traditional ways. For example, for those watching us, we lived much like the ones that Isuma Produced sometime ago, Nunavut Series. The ones you guys made. At these scenes in the spring time, that is exactly how we used to live. We used to look for eggs, when there were eggs. And also, we hunt young mature seals, called Nattiat in the spring time as well. We went fishing, when it was time to fish. My father fished with kakivaak(fish leisters), that is how, he used to catch fish. He used to do this on the rivers and on the lake ice. He used iqaluujaq(fish inviter without a hook). As you pull the iqaluujaq up and down, just like jigging for fish, the fish would come, and my father would spear the fish down below, with his kakivaak. He used to catch a lot of fish, along with my brother-in-law at that time.

      I grew up in a place called Nattiligaarjuk(a lake that has seals) Committee Bay. We used to fish there and we also used to fish at saputit(fish dam) built across the rivers to trap the fish, from going up stream. We fished just like in the films that you made. I used to participate in fishing, when I was just a little boy. When I started to learn how to fish at saputit, it was always hard to get some kakivaak material, such as muskox horns. That is what the kakivaak were made of. So, instead of using the precious kakivaak that the adults were using, my father used to make me kakivaak out of old fox traps. He fashioned them just like the real thing. We had no muskox around Naujaat either, so it was hard to get the real stuff to make the kakivaak. There is still not much muskox, perhaps you see one in the long run.

      Up there, when we would fish at saputit in the mornings and in the evenings, there would be lots and lots of fish(Arctic Char). We would be spearing all the fish. I was a young boy at that time around 1952 or 53. When I was fishing inside the saputit, the water used to go up to my chest, so I was pretty small, fishing with my father and my brother in law. When my father and my brother-in-law were wading in the saputit, the water was just up to their knees. I guess, I was pretty small then. When I would spear a fish, I would pull the wooden handle of the leisters, towards my mother, who was on the dry land, then she would pull the fish on to the dry land. That was how I used to catch fish.

      I remember when we were fishing one evening. It was so much fun and it was so wonderful! I remember being hit by a big fish, right behind my knee or at the back of my knee. That hurt really, really bad. When the fishing was finished that evening, my mother and I decided to look at my leg, I had a really big bruse(sp). Ouch!! It was painful! The reason for this was that the fish were swimming very fast all over, inside the saputit.

      I also remember another story. It was a beautiful day and when we looked at the saputit from our tent, the fish were almost jumping up above the water. There were so much fish! I remember it was a beautiful day, sunny and hot. As a rule, my mother woke me up very early, so that we could all go fishing. When everyone else had left to the saputit to fish, I stayed behind. I was thinking that I didn’t wanted to leave the nice warm bed inside the tent, after all, I was a young child. I was going to go along with everyone but I decided not to go, as I really wanted to stay in bed. The bed was too cozy to leave!

      After the fishing was done, everyone had came back to the tent. My mother was extremely angry with me. She was trying to teach me how to fish at saputit, and teach me how to fish. She then, spanked me quite a few times on my bum. That hurt very much. Every since then, I learned my lesson and tried to be obedient as I did not wanted to be spanked again. We Inuit, when we were spanked once, we would learn a great deal of lesson. Spanking was one of the ways of disciplining someone, it allowed us Inuit to be listenful, that was how it used to be.

      The other thing was when the days would now begin to get dark in the evenings, and you could see the stars in the darken sky, and it was now obvious that the fish had stopped swimming upsteam. Now then, the little ducklings were swimming, with their mothers the sea water. My father would have an age-old knowledge, that they are now swimming in the sea, it was time to move inland to search for caribou. At this point, the caribou fur or hair was just right for making clothes, and there is now lots of tunnuq(fat) on the caribou. We would then practice our traditional methods of hunting caribou through “tagjarniq”, “nunarpangniq” in your Amitturmiut dialect, “moving inland”. We would do this on foot and walked many miles in search of caribou for survival of our family, dogs and for our clothing and winter supply of food. As a child, this walking on the land was very boring. Adults would be carrying heavy loads on their backs of our belongingss, such as tents, beddings, etc. The husky dogs on the other hand, would be carrying our other supplies as well on their backs, such as tents, kettles, food we had to survive on. When I would get tired, “kaka” me, by putting me on his back, and carry me, along with all the load that he was carrying on his back. When I was no longer tired, I would again start running back and forth, in front of family.

      Up where we used to live in Nattiligaarjuk(Committee Bay), we lived all of the seasons. At one point, when we were inland, walking on this big sandy area, that extended many miles. Well, as I was walking and running ahead of the others, I noticed a little black spot ahead of me on this sandy surface. I ran towards it and when I got to it, it was one side of muskox horn. It was so old that it had lichen on it. It means, it was there for quite a while. I grabbed it and then here I ran back as fast as I could towards my father, mothers and other members of my family, to show off my find. I gave it to my father. My father was ever so thankful for me, for finding such a treasure, now, he could make a kakivak out of it. At his spare time, when the days were not good for hunting, he would patiently make a kakivak(fish liester) out of it.

      During this particular period, which was in the fall time, my mother would sew all our caribou clothing, preparing them for winter use. On the other hand, men did cache the meat and fat for the winter supply. I truly love to eat the tunnuq(fat) and marrow. It’s amazing, how much I love to eat the caribou fat and marrow. I used to truly enjoy eating the patiq(the marrow). One time, my mother made me eat lots of patiq. I ate so much of it that, I got sick and had enough of it. Again, she was teaching me a lesson, not to eat too much of it. Since that experience, I don’t like to eat as much patiq as I used to, but still I like them, including the tunnuq. I also enjoy eating “kiksautit” and “iluit”, the caribou guts. These are the most delicious parts of the caribou. I also used to enjoy eating the eyes and ears of the caribou. These were the kinds of things I used to crave for, when I was a little boy. These were the delicacies for the little boys, like myself, when I was a little boy. To this day, whenever I go out caribou hunting on the land, I still eat the ears and eyes of the caribou. To me, that taste of a good delicacy is still there. My thought sometimes instantly returns to Inuit culture and traditions. This is how, I grew up in and around Naujaat.

      In the winter time, I remember my father and others used to hunt seals very traditionally through the “agluit” “seal breathing holes”. They used very traditional hunting methods in those days, using only a downed hair of a bird, as an indicator when the seal would be coming to breathe through it’s seal hole. They also used a small thin piece of metal, which was lowered to the seal hole, to know when the seal would be breathing and then, it was time to harpoon it. They could not see the seal breathing, as all the seal holes were covered with snow during this period of time, which was normally in the month of March, when the days were getting longer. As a young man, I learned the techniques and I hunted using these thousands of year old methods. That was part of my life. In 1961, when my father decided against me going back to a residential school in Chesterfield Inlet, this period of my time was a really awesome period for learning about my own culture. Hunting with “qiviutaq”s birds downs and savgutaujaqs(thin metal) indicator of when the seal was coming up to breathe, these are one of the many things, I learned from my father about my culture. I learned a great deal from my parents, sometimes learning about Inuit myths and legends, listening to them telling stories about these was one of the most pleasant past times.

      I used to ask my father to tell Inuit legends. Sometimes, he would tell a story about Kiviu, Inuit legend, who journeyed through many places. He would tell a story about Sakaliktuarjuk, a poor hunter who fooled every one in the village, that he was actually a good hunter. He would tell a story about Akturraarnaat, an evil mother, whose son was blind. My mother would tell a story about a sister and brother, who became thunder and lightening. These are the things I grew up with, as a young child. I learned about traditional pisiit(songs). My mother, father, my sister and my brother-in-law were very good sings, so I used to listen to them singing, traditional songs. I grew up to become an adult, knowing some knowledge about traditional songs of the Inuit and know how to sing some songs, to this day. I also have some knowledge about shamans. I used to watch my brother-in-law, practicing his healing of the sick. He was a shaman. My brother-in-law used his powers to heal the sick, using his angakkuuni(being shaman) techniques. My father, on the other hand, used to say, that he was not a shaman. Later on, I learned, people used to talk about him, that he was also an angakkuq. He was an extremely good hunter. He used to say, “out there” there must be something that we could see in terms of animals such as caribou. He would repeat this often, to the point where, it was repeated too often. He then, used to tell a story about spirits of angakkuit(shamans).

      He used to tell stories about some Inuit who had birds for spirits. Some other people had other spirits, such as wolves, and Nanurluk(a polar bear spirit). Others used to have human beings as spirits. Sometimes, they used their parents, normally deceased as their spirits, such as mothers or fathers or other relatives. My father used to tell us a story about having a ptarmigan for spirit, and how unpleasant this was, when flying. He said, this is because, they not only fly very fast but flew all over the place. It seemed like, you can hit a hill or something. He said, he used to hear this from other people. He said, other hand, having an ukpigjuaq(an owl) for a spirit, they are very easy to fly with. He said, they would fly high up in the sky and can look both ways. And they could see everything and anything down on the ground. I used to think later on that maybe he was talking about himself. Maybe, he used to fly, but we just didn’t see him fly. This was probably how, he used to know where these animals are, that are “out there”. When he finally goes over to the land, that he was talking about repeated, sure enough, there was caribou. He was like that. I grew up learning by observing all the things about Inuit cultre.

      In the summer time, as children, we used to go down to the beach when the tide was low, looking for Kanajuit(sea scorpions or scanvenger fish with large mouth). Sometimes, we used the go down, when pieces of broken ice were on the beach. We could start to hear the “qallupilluit”, they would be knocking again the ice or the ground. Qallupilluit are spirits, and cannot really be seen by any human being, unless you have extra ordinary powers, such as shaman. My father said, they had feathers like ducks. When we were children, like my friend, the late Simon Aglak, we used to like to go down and look for kanajuit. We used to live on the east side of Naujaat, at Kuugaarjuk, quite a bit of distance from Naujaat. When the tide was low, Simon and I used to look for kanajuit. We used Inuit Traditional Knowledge, looking for these kanajuit. Sometimes, when we would be walking close to the ice, qallupilluq(single) would begin pounding against the ice. When that happens, my mother would yell and say, “you might be gotten by a qallupilluq, come up to the land here”. When you were going to sleep at nights, as long as there was ice around, you could hear the qallupilluit pounding against the ice.

      When we were looking for kanajuit, my mother also used to say, when you are out there, and if you see a “nipisa”(a round-shaped black fish with sticky pad protruding from throat with which it clings on to things, or sticks to your hand, like a scotch tape). My mother would say, the only way to take it off is with an ulu(a half-moon) woman’s knife. One time, when Simon Aglak and I were looking for kanajuit, I lifted the rock to see if there were Kanajuit, and all of a sudden, I saw this fish, I grabbed a hold of it, and it got stuck on the palm of my hand. My mother carefully, took it off with her ulu. That was how, I grew up as a child, with my parents in Naujaat.

      Ever since I can remember, I used to hear about other Inuit from Uqsuqtuuq(Gjoa Haven) Region, Qairnirmiut(the people of Baker Lake area), Talurruaq, my father used to live within those regions. I used to hear about our fellow-Inuit in those areas. I grew up as a true Inuk, living in an iglu in the winter time. While living in an iglu, it can be old at times, especially when there was no oil on the qulliq(Inuit oil lamp). When you live on the sea coast, you used seal fat to light your qulliq. But when you are on the land, or inland, you would have a small oil lamp, that you carried with you. Since there was no seals on the land, my mother would use tunnuq(caribou fat) to light the small qulliq. She used to light the qulliq when she was going to sew our clothes in the evenings. We also used to chew the caribou fat to make candles. We used them for lights in the evenings. This is how I grew up in the Aivilik Region of Nunavut. When I was growing up, I grew up with much happiness and with wonderful things happenings. That was my cycle of life.

      Zack Kunuk: What is it your Inuktitut name?

      Peter Irniq: Taqtu Irniq, those are my Inuktitut names. My mother used to tell a story of her dream, when they lived in Maluk&ittat/Naujaarjuat or Lyon Inlet. She said, she dream’t about this Irniq. That Irniq had relatives in Naujaat as well here in Amittuq. He lived in that area around 1940 or 47. In her dream, my mother said, this Irniq wanted to be named in me. She said, her dream was almost life-like or as though she was awake. We were not related at all. This is why, I was named after that Irniq. Taqtu on the other hand, belonged to a lady relative of ours in Naujaat. When I was born, she named me after that special lady named Taqtu. When I was born and getting older, I remember calling her, “Taqtuuqatiga” “my fellow Taqtu”. This was part of Inuit culture that we practiced. To this day, whenever I talk about her, I refer to her as “Taqtuuqatiga”. This is very important aspect of Inuit culture. I only have two Inuit names. On the other hand, when I was born in 1947 and baptized by a Roman Catholic priest, I was named Pierre. Inuit called the priest Kajualuk(because his big beared was brown) so Inuit called him Kajualuk, translated to “Big Brown”. When I was going to a residential school, I became to be called as Peter, by the Qablunaat(White people).

      Zack Kunuk: When you still a true Inummarik, I guess, you would never pronounce the names of the older people? You would have calling titles for them, “tur&urautiit?”

      Peter Irniq: Yes, particularly, the old, old people, people who were much older than us. They were the fellow-Elders of my parents, my father. We were taught from never to call them by name. Even, if we did not have calling titles for them, we were told not to call them by their names. We respected their Elderships and their ages. It was like honoring them. As children, we were told not to call the older people, those who were older than us, by names. Some we had calling titles for them, and even when they were not related to us for example, we would call them, “my avvakuluk” “my dear little same name”. “My uncle over there”. We had different calling titles for them. “My same-age or equal-age person”. When people were named after certain individuals, we naturally had calling for each other. We were taught to respect and honor. When an Elder came into our tent, and I was sitting down, I was to stand up immediately and allow the Elder to sit down. I was told, do this, without being told.

      Zack Kunuk: When was it that you were sent off to school?

      Peter Irniq: Some Naujaarmiut(people from Naujaat) were sent off to school around 1953, 54 and 55. In those days, they were being sent to school in Igluligaarjuk(Chesterfield Inlet). As for me, I knew I was never going to school. I knew this because, I grew up as a true Inummarik, and knew that I would live an adult life as a true Inuk, a hunter, fisher, and trapper. Ones that are older than I am, they started going to school around 1954-55-57 to Chesterfield Inlet. It was around that time. For me, going to school was something that I was not prepared for as we never lived in a community with other people. My father used to say that living in a community, all you get is welfare from the Qablunaat. He didn’t want to be like that. He always wanted to be close to animals for food and clothing. We lived in Naujaat, I think, only two times, once in 1956 and another time in 1957. At that time, my fellow-youth, were being sent off to a residential school. As for me personally, we living in Tinujjivik(a favorite fishing spot of the Inuit in the spring time, when the fish were swimming down stream). We living there in the summer time and it was in the month of August. It was a time of year when the days were really beautiful, sunny and hot. Tinujjivik is not visible from Naujaat, but if you live in Naujaat, you could see in the distance, the outpost of Tinujjivik. It is around 13 miles west of Naujaat. Tinujjivik is a place for fishing. In the spring time, people would build saputit and when the tide is low, the Arctic Char would be trapped inside the saputit, and that was how we used to fish at Tinujjivik. We would move there in the spring time and moved a short distance to the east, where there are more seals in the area.

      Well, that summer of 1958, we could see a boat coming, with an engine. We could see it very clearly, as it was a very beautiful day. As our custom goes, my mother started to make tea by burning heathers, as this was a summer time. We only used heather and other moss to boil tea in those days. It was such a wonderful feeling that we are having some visitors, so she decided to make tea to welcome the visitors. Then they beached the boat. As they beached, we walked down to the beach to greet the visitors, and all of us, walked down behind my father. But that father, a priest, the late Father Dedier, came off the boat, first. He came off the boat, and said to my father, “Peter Irniq is going to school in Igluligaarjuk so we came to pick him up”. He didn’t even greet my father by shaking hands! I have never seen my father panicked but at that point, he was panicky. So he ordered me by saying, “they came to get you, go put on some nicer clothes”. My mother and I quickly went back to our tent and she made me put on niururiak, a seal skin boots, with the fur outside. I got all dressed up in my best, and off we went to Naujaat. The visitors didn’t have tea. As Inuit, they would have stopped to have tea, if they were regular visitors, then leave after they had tea. I don’t have any idea why this happened the way it did. I wondered, if the priest had told them earlier that, before anything happens, we should leave immediately. I don’t know. When we were traveling towards Naujaat, my goodness, it was lonely. It was the loneliest time of my life! It was too awesome!

      Zack Kunuk: You then, left your parents?

      Peter Irniq: “Yes!”

      It comes back instantly! My parents, my sister and brother-in-law, and my little brother, who died in later years, my niece, I watched them, as we are traveling farther and farther away from them. They were all standing by the shore, seeing me off, until I was no longer visible by eye. Wow! Perhaps, it’s that particular incident, when I was suddenly taken away, it’s been long time ago, since 1958, to me, it comes back quite suddenly, to the time I was a child. That very part, it is very difficult to become adult with. You stayed a child forever! Even though, I am a old person now, but sometimes, you have to returned to it, or re-visit it, instantly. And so, we were on our way to Naujaat.

      Zack Kunuk: How old were you at that time?

      Peter Irniq: Eleven. Yes, I was 11 years old, when I was taken away. So, we were traveling towards Naujaat. I watched my parents, as they were no longer visible by eye sight. They were still standing on the beach. They were also watching until we were no longer visible in the horizon. When we finally got to Naujaat, I was made to go to Angutinguaq family. My father and Angutinguaq were cousins. So I was to stay with this family, according to the wishes of the Roman Catholic Church. They were the adoptive parents of Jack Anawak. We had been here for some days, I guess my parents would watch from where they were, to see if the plane had come and coming to land in the water in Naujaat. Even though, Naujaat was some distance away, they could see airplanes from where they were. Since, they did not see any planes landing in Naujaat, a few days later, my father and my brother-in-law, came over by canoe with an outboard motor. When they arrived, it was so wonderful! Since they arrived, I became relaxed, knowing that I now have a foundation here in Naujaat.

      At that point, Angutinguaq, who I called Haluuruluk. Since they were in the south in 1925, spokes some English, I was to call him, my Haluuruluk(my darn Hello). Now that my father and my brother-in-law here, I had a foundation and practically no more worries and stress. At that point, Father Dedier had said, the plane would be here to pick us up, after three or four days, to bring us to Igluligaarjuk. He said, we were free to do whatever we wanted to do. Now that we are free to do whatever we wanted to do, and there was lots of broken ice in Naujaat at this point. My Haluuruluk had a boat called Uvajuk, it was very tippy so it was called that name. Using Uvajuk, we would go down to the sea, in between the ice, to see if there might have been bearded seals or walruses. We were doing this, while we were waiting for a plane. Once we were out there, they got me to steer the boat, while my father, Haluuruluk and my brother-in-law were on the look out for the animals, maybe polar bears. We waited may be about four days, a single engine plane came to pick us up. And so, we board the plane, and we were now on our way to Igluligaarjuk. It was my first time in an airplane. I remember my father having a discussion with another Inuksuk, when I was much younger child. This man was on an airplane previously. My father had asked him, when the plane was taking off, do you watch the ground? We used to get very few planes in Naujaat in those days. So, this man was telling about an airplane ride he had. He said, when they were taking off, and he was looking down on the ground, he could see that as they were going so fast, he could see stripes of blue, green or red or yellow. Remembering that story, I was looking down on the water as we were taking off. As you know it was my first time on an airplane. I kept on a lookout for green, red or yellow stripes. There was nothing. It was actually a slow airplane. Perhaps, he was exaduating(sp), to make the story more interesting. And when we were going back home, we were taking off from the snow, it certainly was not like that, there were no beautiful stripes. There were about 10 or 12 of us, who were brought from Naujaat to Igluligaarjuk. We traveled to Chesterfield Inlet for about two-and-a-half hours.

      Zach: With a single engine airplane?

      Peter Irniq: Yes, with a single engine airplane. This airplane belonged to the RCMP, the one they used to bring us over. On the side of the airplane was a yellow stripe, with a dark blue paint. The tail of the plane had a yellow paint as well.

      Zach Kunuk: When you are getting close to Igluligaarjuk and the time you were landing to Chesterfield Inlet, can you tell us about that?

      Peter Irniq: I remember this very well! I don’t forget things at all, so I remember it very well. I am an Inuk. I grew up as a real Inuk, at that time. My mother and father, always used to tell me to be looking or observing…always. If you see something, then you will be able to tell me. Look for animals. I used to look around for anything, at that time. When we left Naujaat, it was a beautiful day. We arrived to Igluligaarjuk, it was even more beautiful. Hot! There were some clouds. There were beautiful clouds, with the sun shining. When we got closer, the sea water didn’t seem to be as beautiful. But the land, was beautiful, much like Naujaat environment. The stone formations were beautifully bright! I could see all those each time I look down below me, from an airplane. They very much resembled, Naujaat rock formations. Naujaat has those. When we were getting closer to landing, the land and sea were both beautifully pleasant. That time, we landed at Tasiraaluk(a small big pond). Tasiraaluk belonged to Iguligaarjuk, it was situation just around the houses. We landed there at Tasiraaluk, a fairly big pond. The airplanes landed so it was quite a large pond. The Roman Catholic Church used it for water supply. We beached on a beautiful rocky beach with the plane. When we beached, we all got off. I saw some Inuit there but then, I saw the Sisters, the Grey Nuns, for the first time in my life. They wore long dresses, and their hoods had little “furs”, but with lots of little holes, just like window screens. Some of the nuns were extremely beautiful! When I first started seeing Qablunaat, they were always beautiful. To see the Grey Nuns, they were even more beautiful than the Qablunaat, that I had seen previously, which weren’t many. I started to see the Qablunaat there, some belonged to the Department of Transport and others were priests. I used to think, I wonder if White People had ugly people. They all seemed to beautiful and handsome. The Grey Nuns that I noticed so much being different than most people, were to be our care takers, supervisors. They came to meet us. So, I was standing there, as I didn’t know where to go, nor have any place to go. My fellow Naujaarmiut were there, Paul Maniittuq, John Ninngak Mike Kusugaq, and Katherine and the late Francios Nanuraq. There was also Nick Amautinnuaq and Jose Kusugaq, who we knew only as Amaujaq in Naujaat. When our names were changed by the Government of the Northwest Territories, he became Jose Kusugaq. He was along with us. There was also Agatha from Naujaat. There were others, Maria, Theresie, now Theresie Tungilik. She has his father’s name today. Those are the ones who came here to Igluligaarjuk. There was this little Qablunaaq, he was slightly bigger than I am. As I was 11 years old, I was not that tall. I maybe, was about this height. As he was standing next to me, and kept looking at me and then asked me: “What is your name?” with a French accent. I understood what he said, as the year before in 1957, we were taught some English by the Roman Catholic priest, perhaps for a week or so. We were taught in English about things that were inside the Roman Catholic Mission in Naujaat. “Box” “Seal” “House” so we learned a little bit in English, then. “Fish” I used to tell my father about what we had learned. He used to recognize the words that I told him about. The four of them, including my Haluuruluk Angutinguaq, Tapatai and Savikataaq were in the land of the Qablunaat in 1925. They were in Newfoundland, Halifax and in Montreal. When they returned, they learned some English and were able to speak some English. So what I was learning, he would recognize them once I tell him about them. We were taught by Iksirajuakuluulaurtuq(Formerly Father Franzen), and Father Dedier. So, when he asked, “what is your name”, I understood him. As I answered him, I was extremely timid and said, Peter. Also, I was feeling very strange to see the Inuit of Igluligaarjuk. Everything was too awesome for me!

      From there, we were led by a Sister to the hostel. I walked along with my good friend Paul Maniittuq. Both of us walked in behind a Sister, as we were told to follow her. We were apparently going to the big house, the Turquetil Hall. It was a huge building, green in color. I turned to one side and noticed another big building. These buildings looked really big. I also noticed the Church Rectory, it was beautifully built. When I looked to the west, there was a Statue of Virgin Mary, surround by rocks, it was beautiful. From there, we saw another large building, two-storey, this was a hospital as well as being a home for the Nuns. This one was not to be our home, at that point. The one, we were going to was a two-storey hostel, it was to be our home for entire winter or during all the time, that we were going to be in Igluligaarjuk. We called it Iglurjuaraaluk – a real big hosue. When we got there, we were told to take our clothes off. We were to have a bath. We were deliced. We got our haircuts. We got our haircuts with those old fashioned manual hair cutters. I had a very short hair. In fact, all of us young boys had very short hair at that point. I also noticed that day that the young girls also got a hair cut, by cutting their hair, right across their forehead. They looked so different. It was the firs time I ever saw a bath tub, as we didn’t have bath tubs in Naujaat. It was the first time I ever saw and worn shoes. I put a short sleeve shirt for the first time. That was the first time, I ever put on a foreign clothing like that. Wow, it was so awesome! There were lots of boys and girls, Iglulingmiut, Qamanittuarmiut(Baker Lake) kids, Arviarmiut(Arviat kids), there were many of them. That day was something to remember, that very day in Igluligaarjuk.

      Then when the night time came, we were told to go into our large, huge bedroom. There were many beds. I was given my bed, complete with sleepers or pjamas. I didn’t know a darn thing about these items, as we did not use them in Naujaat. As an Inuk, I slept completely naked, at home. Just before, we went to bed, we were told “to kneel down” and pray. I guess, this was the beginning of praying. We prayed a lot. That evening was just the beginning of our praying. When we woke up the next morning, we prayed firs thing, then just before our breakfast, when we got to the school, we prayed first thing, we used to go to school at 9 in the morning. Right after we said the Lord’s Prayer, “our father who art in heaven…” then we sang, what is apparently a “Oh Canada” song, Canadian National Athem. I didn’t know what I was singing about but just trying to follow along and copied everybody. I was completely unaware of what these songs mean’t.

      We had our teacher, who was a Grey Nun. After that first morning of schooling, we had to pray again, just before we left for lunch. When we got into the dining room of our hostel, we prayed. Just before we left for school, we prayed again. When we got to the afternoon school, we prayed again and then sang, God Save the Queen. We stayed in school during the afternoon for about two-and-a-half hours. Then when the English classes were finished, a Roman Catholic priest came over to teach us catechasm. This activity was also very noticeable to myself, especially, during the early stages of staying there. I was happy with this exercise, as we were able to speak our own Inuktitut language. Whereas at the school, we were told to speak only English. We were completely forbidden to speak our own Inuktitut language.

      At that time, Father Farard used to teach us catechasm. I had some idea about the Bible and the prayer, mostly I’ve learned this from my mother. This was prior to going to Igluligaarjuk. Prayer books were used quite a lot in those days, I even have one at home, one of the first prayer books of the Church. The top page has a drawing of a church, couple of iglus and Inuit. I have the old prayer book. When that priest was teaching us about the bible, I was the most knowledgeable one about it. I knew so much that I won a prize from Father Fafard. This was shortly after, we’ve been there for a short time. For my Prayer Book knowledge, he gave me a green apple for a prize. I didn’t know it was an apple. When you go outside, you can eat it, he said. So, when we got outside, I decided to take a bite out of this apple: Oh, what a horrible taste!! I found the apple so horrible tasting, so I gave it to Marius Qajuuttaq, who was walking with me up to the Turquetil Hall. I told him, I just hated the taste of it so I said, you can have it. A year ago, he has already been to that school, so he like it and found it very delicious! As for me, I ate a lot of Inuit food, such as dried meat, so I totally found dried fish very delicious. So, I gave that apple to Marius. I wonder, if he sometimes thinks about it today.

      Zack: Would you like some break?

      Peter Irniq: Yes, let’s

      Filmmaker: Zacharias Kunuk

      Filmmaker Contact:


      Year of Production: 2008

      Country: Canada

      Region: Nunavut


      uploaded date: 03-11-2011

    • 1h 11m 6s

      Joe Ataguttaaluk Testimony

      uploaded by: Zacharias Kunuk

      channel: Testimony I Residential Schools

      Click on 'Read More' for English Translation of Joe Ataguttaaluk Testimony by Peter Irniq, May 2009

      Interview with Joe Ataguttaluk

      Iglulik, Nunavut

      May 2008

      Joe Atagutaaluk:  I remember this one incident, when we were at a lake, this guy was running along and wanted to drink water with us from the lake.  He came in between us, and fell right through the ice.  He had a flashlight, and the flashlight fell to the bottom.  This guy, he started to swim away from us but we yelled him to turn around and swim towards us.  You could see the flight light in the bottom for a while, that was funny.

      Peter Irniq:  Was it getting dark?

      Joe Atagutaaluk:  He thought, we had made holes on the ice and drinking water but we were just along the edge.  It was a bit far to that lake as well.  We had our skates too, so the two guys were skating as fast as they could, and the guy was really running in between. 

      Peter Irniq:  Do you remember when Rene Otak broke his collar bone?

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Rene, yes.

      Peter Irniq:  He broke his collar bone, when we were playing foot ball.

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  We used to do all kinds of things..

      Peter Irniq:  We had some happy times in Chesterfield Inlet. 

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, absolutely!  There were some happy least to me.  There were quite a few happy moments. 

      Peter Irniq:  Do you remember all the happy times and what were you happy about?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Sort of. 


      Peter Irniq:  Can you talk about some of them?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  One of the things that I was very happy about what when we would go out trapping foxes.  Those of us who were bigger.  Every Saturday, we would go out and check our traps, by walking.  We would wait the entire week to visit our traps.  When we go to check on them, we would catch a fox on a trap.  At that time, when it became November 15, we would have an anxious time.  We would down to the beach in front us at the hostel, we would go and look for food garbage, that they used to throw out there.  At one time, a Sister was trying to keep us from going to sleep until 12 midnight and when midnight came along, couple of us, would go down to the beach in the dark, and then set traps, with a hope of catching a fox.  When they went to check them later on, they had a fox.  And then, us, me and Jack(Anawak), Jack was my really good friend.  Behind the community, there was a little shack, we noticed a small fox went under the house.  We set up the trap and went out further for sometime.  When we came back, we noticed we had a fox already.  And then, we had another fox where we set up another trap.  My goodness, we truly wanted to get foxes.  That time during the year, it was fun, as a man.  We noticed  four men, side by side.  Each had foxes in between them, in fact, they had lots of foxes, at that time!  At that time, we were being taught how to skin a fox.  Those made it sort of fun, as they were sort of preparing us, for eventually becoming true Inuit. 


      Sometimes, it was not happy at the hostel.  Our house, it didn’t bother me that much, even though, it does bother me at times.  Over there, there were some unhappy situatins.  When I got there for the first time, there were children who were eight years old.  When I look at my children today and they are eight years old, they are still pretty small.  That was how old I was when we left to go to school. 


      Peter Irniq:  You were still a little child?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Apparently, yes!  I still remember most.  When we got there for the first time, I had a favorite aunt.  She was my mother’s younger sister.  She also went over there.  Today, she is no longer alive.  I could not see her for three days, when I was first there.  When I did not see her for three days, I wanted to see her as I was remembering her.  Where do these women go, I was thinking to myself.  I must have been trying to becoming more clever, at this point.  When I first started to try and notice where they went, I see the women would go upstairs and we boys were down here.  When I would see them through a small window, they would go the stairs.  I wondered, if she was up there too?  So, I proceeded to go upstairs.  When I got upstairs, I was asked, what I was doing?  I said, I was up there to see my aunt.  I was met with absolutely no smile, by a Sister!  I was told, I am not supposed to be up there, they grabbed me and dragged me downstairs, back to boy’s dorm!  I was brought to our supervisor immediately.  Here, I was eight years old, I was put to bed right away.  One who didn’t understand any of the rules applied to us. 


      Peter Irniq:  There was no attempt to make you understand why and here you were, you wanted only to see your aunt?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes. 


      Peter Irniq:  You only wanted to see your relative?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  It seemed we were not allowed to see our relatives immediately, upon arrival.  If it was your sister, you were cut off from seeing her.  Yes, over there, there were some very unhappy experiences.  Also, I remember being put to bed, I don’t know how many times, I was put into bed, even though, I thought, I was being pretty good, all the time, at this point.  I thought, I was pretty obedient, but then, I would be dragged to be put to bed.  At one point, we were outside and then went inside the hostel.  When we got in, we of course, were told to go in.  With the girls, we had to take turns to go in and out.  When the little girls were out, we boys, were instructed, not to go outside.  When we do go out, there was a special for the boys, to be at.  When they got the little girls to go in, then, they allowed us boys to go outside.  Soon after we had been outside, I was instructed to go inside.  I didn’t know why, I was told to go in.  When I got in, I was brought to the boy’s washroom, where we had several toilets.  And I noticed there was someone who put into the toilet, the entire toilet paper.  Someone flushed it and it got so full that it overflowed.  It was so full that it spilled all over the floor, and there were toilet paper all over the floor.  Then, they(Sisters) started to interrogate us little ones about it.  They knew, I did not do it.  As long as they pointed at me, then they said, it was me, who did it, there was no question about it. 


      Peter Irniq:  Was there someone who told on you?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  It was a fellow-child.  When I was being pointed at, they said, it was me.  I tried to tell them, I didn’t do it as I knew, I didn’t do it.  I was blamed for it.  When they got to know it was not me, but it was already to late, to correct it, then it became me, who did it.  The Sisters made sure of that.  Then, they dragged me to go to bed. 


      Peter Irniq:  During the broad daylight?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  During the afternoon.  It was after, we had finished schooling in the afternoon.  The next day, I had to prepare a toilet paper like this.  See those little lines and blocks on the toilet paper?  The next day, they made me, prepare this toilet paper into three little pieces like this, on this toilet paper.  They made me to fix them up and set them up, on top of each other, for other people to use.  For a time, it was only me, who was doing that, but then, it became all of us doing this.  We would use them to blow your nose and to wipe your ass.  That entire exercise became a rule! 


      Peter Irniq:  And only because the toilet was overflowing?!


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, only because the toilet overflowed.  I was not responsible for it.


      Peter Irniq:  Did they find out, it was not you who did it?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I don’t think, they ever found out.  Also, at one time, some one broke a window.  I never know to this day, why I was blamed for these things, often.  One of my fellow-children, blamed me for it.  At home here at that time, I never knew anything about a window.  The last thing I would have thought of, is to break a window, let alone, not knowing, that a window would break.  They said, it was me, who broke the window.  Again, they put me to bed, in the day time.  I was of course, not sleepy at all!  We never got any orientation what-so-ever.  For one thing, we were not told about the windows being able to break easy.  When they thought, we did something, they put us to bed.  Then, I went to bed again.  We must have been thought of as foolish children.  As a child, I didn’t think, they were a big deal for us to be put in bed.  When I was younger, thinking back about the way, we were treated,  I used to think, “good, they have all died!”  Now, I don’t think that.  At that time, I used to think, since they did so many bad things to us, I used to think, they got what they deserve.  As a result, they will not be able to do anything like that to anyone else.  But, that was how things were done at that time. 


      Peter Irniq:  Are those types of punishments, that were part of the rules?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, those were the ways of punishing us, instead of teaching us, they totally avoided teaching us or informing us the right way.  They would punish us, and wanted us to know, before hand, that these things were not the right way.  They expected us to know things, that we did not know.  They had an attitude that, you should know about these things, before hand, that they were wrong ways of doing things.  The minute we got to Chesterfield Inlet, they got us to become adults, immediately!  It looked like that.


      Peter Irniq:  As a young boy, when you lived near Iglulik or around Iglulik, and when you suddenly spilled the toilet bowl, would have been punished severely by your mother?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  No!  I know, I would not have been punished.  If you have an accident not on purpuse, people know.  He didn’t do this on purpose.  People knew, when you did things on purpose.  If I did something like that at home, I would not have been punished for it, either by my mother or my father.  About these things, they brought us up, totally differently, in Chesterfield Inlet.


      Peter Irniq:  They introduced you to a totally foreign culture, that was not part of Inuit culture?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  When I first went to Chesterfield Inlet, I did not at all know, English.  No wonder, and it’s not surprising that I never entered a classroom before.  As soon as I entered the classroom in Chesterfield Inlet, the teacher opened the window, and threw out my Inuit language, out the window, immediately!  My language in Inuktitut was then, left outside!  We were then taught to speak English!  They allowed us to do things, with such force or vigour!  Inside the classroom, you are not to speak Inuktitut!  If you speak Inuktitut, you will pay for the consequences!  If you speak it, you will be hit a with a large measuring tape, a yard stick, and hit on your hand. 


      Peter Irniq:  That was if you spoke in Inuktitut language?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes!  If you spoke in Inuktitut inside the classroom.


      Peter Irniq:  When you first left Iglulik, were you not able to speak in English, at all, as well?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes. Absolutely!


      Peter Irniq:  And you were eight years old?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  We always lived at a small outpost came.  We never lived in a community.  And the Qablunaat(White People), who were in Iglulik, did not go to outpost camps.  Those of us who lived in outpost camps, were all Inuit, and all spoke Inuktitut language.  Only in Inuktitut, since time immemorial. 


      Peter Irniq:  Now that you are an adult, do you speak to your fellow-Inuit in Inuktitut, since long time ago?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I normally do.  But, when you go out to different places, and when people speak a different dialect, then you feel, maybe they won’t understand me, speaking my own dialect, then you sort of have to speak in English.  When you go into a different community, whose dialect is different, then you have to do this but here in our community, I try to speak Inuktitut all the time, to my fellow-community members. 


      Peter Irniq:  When we were in Chesterfield Inlet, at that time, one of the things that was really wonderful for us, was the movies, and we would go to the movies, every Friday night, it seemed.  You mentioned earlier that you had punishements, and knowing the fact that, going to see movies, were one of our favorite past times, as we enjoyed watching cowboy movies.  If we did do something, and if we didn’t listen for example, without knowing or not on purpose, we would have been told, “no picture show for you tonight on Friday”.  Do you remember this as well?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  Some were made to do this, and it was done to me as well.  I used to be  very envious of the children going to the movies, and again, my punishment was to go to bed, again.  I would be in bed, wide awake.  I was “bad” in their eyes, so they would stop me from going to the movies. 


      Peter Irniq:  It was really fun going to the movies.


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  It was wonderful but sometimes you think the other way as well.  Sometimes, when you didn’t feel like going to a movie, especially when someone said, what we are going to watch tonight is a scary movie, so you didn’t really wanted to go to a movie but, they let you go anyways and told be “part of it”.  You had to go along.  We had to follow all these, and we were not free to not to them. 


      Peter Irniq:  So, when we did things that we liked  doing, we would be punished for them, if they thought, we were doing things, against their will?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, the punishment that used to get, was very big for what we thought were for small things.  When you did things without knowing or what they appeared to be small things, you would get a severe punishment for it.  At one time, we walked to the land, going out to check our fox traps, then when we got home, we were cold, and it was not a wonder, it was cold outside.  We put all our boots into one spot, and you will obviously remember, Sister Girard.  She spoke French fluently, as a French woman.  She also spoke some Inuktitut.  She was also learning to speak English.  She started to speak to us in English and there were quite a few of us, sitting on the floor.  I started to imitate how she was speaking in English.  She came over to me when she found out, took me to dormitory and had got me to sit on the floor.  I was trying my best to apologise to her about what happened.  But, she just told me to sit on the floor.  When it was 12 o’clock, she came over, and told me to go for lunch.  I responded by saying, “you told me to sit down, I am going to remain sitting.” 


      Peter Irniq:  Our big house, the place where we slept, can you describe it?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  Where she had me sitting down, she got me to have lunch, then after lunch, she got me return to our dormitory.  She then, got me to sit on the floor again.  She got me to sit on the floor around 10:30 in the morning,  had a quick lunch, got me to sit again in the dormitory, finally at 3 p.m., when she said, it was time for my bath, she got me to stand up.  That was how it was, and it was a long period of time.  Later on, when I became an adult, I went to see where we used to sleep, it was one huge room.  It had beds, all lined up like this, and there were quite a few.  They may have been a row of six this way, and perhaps 24 rows this way.  There might have been about 40 beds, as there was may be 40 boys, that went to school.  The beds were all lined up very straight this way and that way, in one huge bedroom, the dormitory.  At each end of the dormitory, our supervisors had their individual rooms, where they slept. 


      At one time, I was curious about where they used to pee, especially since they had huge dresses, as Qablunaat.  When I got older and became an adult, and was free to do what I wanted to do, I went to see their bedrooms.  Apparently, they shared one washroom, between the two bedrooms, where they slept.  I had overcome my curiosity.  Also, some beds could be on top of each other for some.  Perhaps, you were there or had gone to where else, at that point.  These were particularly set aside for the big boys.  At one time, they had me sleeping on top bunk.  I fell off the bunk bed, at one point! 


      Peter Irniq:  I think, I was no longer there.


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  I think, there I was taught a pretty good schooling, there.  There was loud siren that they had, whether it was night or not.  And they were teaching us what to do, when that happened.  There was a door way from our dormitory, and then there were stairs from there.  We would wrap a blanket completely, and used to go outside, when there was a practice drill.  We did this at night, even though, we had been a sleep.  We would go down the steps and went outside, even though, it was cold outside.  No one froze.  I think, we were taught pretty good about this then. We were also taught pretty good, if there was an emergency, especially taught not to panic.  I don’t think, I learned very well, when I was a “trader” at the coop here, when the store was on fire, I became panicky.  It was extremely scary! 


      Peter Irniq:  If in fact, there was a fire at the hostel and there were about 70 or so, boys and girls, together.  Where do you think, they would have send us to?  Have you been told, where we would have gone to? 


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, for sure?  Not at all, we were told nothing, the only thing they taught us, was how to get out of the building, in case, there was a fire.  We kind of knew about this prior, as we were told that we would have fire drill training.  If there was a real fire, this is where, you are going to go to.  No one told us about this.  Perhaps, they would have send all of you to the school. 


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, perhaps.  Maybe to the hospital.  I am not sure, where they would have taken us to.  I know one thing for sure, they would not have taken us to Inuit homes, at that time.  The local  Inuit there, as our fellow-Inuit, we used to try and make friends with them, by visiting them.   It was fun to visit local Inuit, at that time.  But when our Supervisors found out that we were visiting, we would then again be told to go to bed, as part of the rules applied to us.  They would get the boys together and the girls together but separate from each other.  The boys were gathered and were then asked, as to “who have you visited?”  When the question was asked, all of the boy’s hands went up.  I did not put up my hand, as I did not participated visiting.  When there were only a few us, perhaps five of us, who did not visit the local Inuit.  All the others, who put up their hands, indicating that they had visited, were all put to bed, as punishment.  They apparently did the same thing to the girls.  Those who did not visit, came downstairs, they were not many, perhaps seven.  Those who indicated visiting, apparently were put to bed to punish them.  Those of us, who were “better” than the others, they got us together.  They got us to play bingo, and had placed various things on the table, for prizes.  Then, we were playing bingo, as though it was a real bingo game.  While participating at a bingo game, I suddenly remembered, that I visited certain people.  As soon as I remembered, the supervisors there seemed to know all about what happened.  I became very scared!  I wanted to tell them out loud that I had done this, while playing bingo at the same time.  I was actually quite struggling to tell.  I figured, the supervisors knew about this, wow, it was scary!  I wasn’t doing this on purpose.  If I had remembered earlier about my previous visit to the local Inuit, I would have been put to bed right away, along with the others.  Only when we got together, I remembered my visit, it became extremely scary.  If they found out about this, I would have been considered a lair.  Now at least, that’s in the past. 


      Peter Irniq:  When we were made to trap foxes at that time, how much money did you get for one fox, that you caught?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  What I remember about this was that one fox was worth $3, at that time. 


      Peter Irniq:  That was in 1958.


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  Around that time, 58, 59. One pelt was worth $3, so I got seven foxes, that entire year.  I got a lot of money, totally $21.  I was told that I had $21 and then was told, I could order things from the catalogue.  When she brought a catalogue in front of me, I was looking through it with anxiety, right through it.  And then, wow, I found a rifle, a 22 calibre.  There was no cartridge and only allowed to put one bullet, at a time. 


      Peter Irniq:  Yes, you load, only one bullet at a time.


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, if you shoot, take out the empty bullet and then put another one in. It was that kind.  I bought a rifle.  It cost something like $14.19.  Wow!  Then, I was looking and found beautiful wrist watches.  They were very cheap.  Now, I bought those two for less than $21.  I then added several other things which I bought with the rest of the money.  That was how, I started to buy things.  The big thing was, I even bought a rifle.  I bought these things with the seven foxes that I got that year.  When you consider the 22 with no cartridge today, they cost a lot of money now.  It was fun, at that time. 


      Peter Irniq:  Did you have money left over?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  No, we had to make sure, we spent them all.  As we had to spend all of it, I bought three things with the money.  Prior to that, my father sent to me $2 at that time. 


      Peter Irniq:  This must have been a lot of money.


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:   When I got the $2, it was huge money!  It was taken by our Supervisor right away.  After the school was over, I asked, if I could go to the store with the money.  So, we went to the store to the Hudson’s Bay Company.   You know these brown papers like this, I loaded up with things, with the money I bought it, it was right full.  It was full of things, that are really useful things.  I bought sweets with him, such as candies, chocolate bars and gums.  After I had spent a dollars, then I still had a dollar left over, to spend.  I saved it for future so that I could use it, sometime down the road.  At that time, things were very cheap.  Wow! 


      Peter Irniq:  When you entered the classroom for the first time, do you remember what it looked like inside?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  No really.  The thing that I remember most was when we were brought inside the classroom that, they opened the window, and then throw  out your Inuit language outside.  They closed the window, and then started to teach us in English. 


      Only when I got  a bit bigger, perhaps during the third year, or second year of schooling,  I wanted to go to the washroom.  The immediate answer was flat NO.  It’s not a wonder, I needed to pee.  The answer was flat no.  Then, it became completely hopeless.  Here I was trying to learn something in school, at the same time, I needed to pee so badly, knowing full well that my teacher did not allowed me to go to the washroom.  So finally, I was asked to help someone, perhaps it was Karlik or Komaksiutiksaq, who had requested some help to fill up a water tank with water.   They chose me to go.  When I got chosen to go, I went to the furnace room, and started to fill the water tank with water.  Then, over there was a doorway.  Here, I should just gone out and peed outside but didn’t.  But I guess, hearing the water running,  I peed in my pants, by accident, as I could no longer help it.  I tried to hold on to my pee but as soon as it started go, it went all the way.  Here, I could have just gone out and peed, as no one would have caught me.  I was scared.  When I peed, my pants got all went, no wonder.  It was  12 o’clock at this point, I left with the other students to go to the hostel to eat.  Here, I was all wet.  If the supervisors found out about this, I would have been beaten by them.  They could have done anything to me.  I just continued using my wet pants.  Only when Saturday came along, we used to change our clothing.  We wore our clothing for entire week but when Saturday came along, we would be allowed to have a bath, and only then, we would change our clothes.  My pants were wet at first, but as I was using them, for what looked like an entire week, they dried up.  I kept using them all the way, I must have gotten pretty stinky.  I was really scared of the supervisors.  If they knew, they would have done something to me. 


      I remember one other time about the other children.  The weather was some what like this outside, when snow was beginning to melt(in May).  These children were playing outside when the surface became wet and as a result they got all wet.  Well, I remember the Sisters ordered them inside, told them to take their pants down, and started whipping them, with the belts.  That is what they might have done to me, if they found out I was wet from peeing my pants. 


      Peter Irniq:  Do you remember some students because they could not speak English and ask the teacher, “I would like to go to the washroom” that they ended up having an accident inside the classroom and peed their pants?  Have you ever notice some of those?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I actually did not notice anyone.  I think, that was sometimes obvious for both boys and girls as well.  It was extremely difficult to try to tell the teacher that you needed to go.  This was a hard part for us, as we did not speak fluent English, because we were real Inuit to begin with.  And when we needed to go to the washroom, they didn’t think, it was the major problem.  That was how, they treated us.  I just never got anything done to me, because I was hiding things very much. 


      Peter Irniq:  Was there a teacher teaching Inuktitut inside the classroom?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Not right inside the classroom itself. But, just outside of the school, there was a workshop, so that gentleman from Kangir&iniq(Rankin Inelet) Pierre Karlik, used to teach us how to make toy sleigh, he taught us some Inuit cultural ways, even though, it was in a small way.  That was only at that place and when you got inside the actual classroom, then you have nothing in Inuktitut, what-so-ever. 


      Peter Irniq:  Did you learn to make fish net there?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, at home, where we were.  They were fun to do!  I used to finish, two spools at a time.  We used to stand next to each other making nets, which was fun part.  And the other fun part was when we were trying to see who could finish first.  So, we used to have a competition, as to who, could finish the net first.  I can and know how to make fish nets, but I buy the ones that are already made, ready for use, from the store.  The first one I made over there, I gave it to my grandfather.  I made three nets in three years.  The first two I made I gave them to my grandfather and his brother.  The third one I made, I gave it to my father.  So we made fish nets.  The floats were not included from the store, so we made floats out of ordinary wood.  We made them very good looking.  We learned to make things like that, at that time.  They really were wonderful. 


      Peter Irniq:  What about the priests, did you have catechisms?  Did they come around to teach as well?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, they came and to preach about religion.  They taught us, inside our classrooms. When they came to our home, they did not talk about it. 


      Peter Irniq:  When we were going to school in Chesterfield Inlet, we had all kinds of rules, in which, many of those have quite a lot of impact on all of us, in every which way.  Many Survivors talked a great deal about how, we used to be abused, as a result, we have to have a healing for life, and it is a real healing for us.  Do you have something to tell us about this?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I cannot  really talk about it, in depth.  I cannot talk about it to it’s end.  I don’t think, I can even talk about it in every detail.  I will probably jump from issue to issue.  Well, when I first got there, I was taught about praying, believing.    I can speak about praying and it’s something that is good.  We would go to pray at 6:30 in the morning, started the church service at 7 a.m.,  Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.  On Sundays, at 6:30, then later in the morning, at 10:30. And after lunch at 3 p.m., then 7 in the evening.  Four times a day.  Then, on Monday, during the week, we would say the rosary, every day, right after school, at our hostel, for entire year.  That first year, I remember it very well.  But, the next year, it was not as much as it was during the previous year.  But, I like it.  To this day, I am not angry about the church services or prayers we had.  Whenever I can go to church, I go to church, at every opportunity.  But the thing is, because of who the priests and Angilican are today.  It is not what they were.  This is why, I can go to church today.  In Chesterfield Inlet, there was that darn person, who tried to make friends with the children, in (a sexual way).  If that person is here and working here today, I would not be going to church whats-so-ever!  And to think of this, it is not what these priests were then, I am able to go to church today.  And I struggle to try and make sure, that these church people we have today, are not those of what we had at that time, as a result, I am able to go to church today.  I am not praying to those people, I think they are sent to as messengers to preach about believing.  But, when those others were doing things that they were doing to us, it makes you very angry.  Looking back, it makes you extremely angry.  I never had any real close friends, I think, because I was put to bed too many times.  My fellow-children used to turn on me.  My fellow children used to point fingers at me.  It makes you think, that was the only kind of friend I had and accepted it.  Looking back about it, it angers me very fast.  Having talked about it somewhat, I am now able to leave it behind, more so than before.  Now that I can leave it behind me, I can now refrain from thinking about it.  It taught me a great deal of lesson and I have seen many people, who done this sort of thing here in our community.  I have never wanted to pass on this issue to our children.  Looking back to what happened to us in the past over there, it sometimes, makes me think that, “good  now that these people are gone, those who have done wrong to us”.  It is not a wonder, that these people did things that they were not supposed to do. 


      Why is it, that Catholic priests are not supposed ?  How come the Grey Nuns cannot have husbands?  We are all made to want, all of us.  I believe that this topic should be considered seriously by the Pope.  That is precisely what I think about.  This business of wanting, will always be around.


      I also hear of Anglicans who went to schools as well.  Those of us who were brought up as Roman Catholics, we were the ones, who attended that school over in Chesterfield Inlet.  And also, others who went to other schools, they were sexually abused.  It’s exactly the same way.  I wonder why, this is such so strong.  I don’t want to let go of my beliefs.  As a result, as long as I can go to church, I will.  But, whatever I learned in Chesterfield Inlet, in terms of praying and in terms of the faith, I will use it.  I know that I did not get them from the priests and Christian brothers, at that time.  We were taught about religion but this faith is much bigger.  This is why, I am able to go to church.  I think, sometimes we do not consider those, who were hurt.  This is how, I can say it. 


      Peter Irniq:  Those things, for example, if you don’t want to answer my question, it’s okay but if you want to answer it, that is okay.  Those who were sexually abused at that time, the children, or as very small children, if we were at home, we would not have been abused like that, as it is not in the culture of the Inuit, those who were sexually abused, they are healing today, forever or lifetime.  They want to heal since then, from there.  What would you say to them, your fellow-Inuit?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Well, I cannot say it.  But, I am aware of a need to feel.  A need for feeling  of needing to  help a child, because, he/she is a  child.  Sexually abusing a child, is not helping the little child.  A little child doesn’t seem to feel as a child but when they start to grow, and become aware of things, they can get angry.  He will have a reason to be angry.  I think, we need to think further ahead.  Ever since then, what happened to us, has been following us, this is how I see it.  As we grew up, we kept holding on to what happened to us over there, and in the end, we are very angry about it.  As for me, I have been able to heal about what happened as I have been able to get it out in to public, not particularly to yourself but it has healed me much more.  I have been able to heal great deal more from it.  I am able to think more about the fact that, “let’s not do these things to little children.”   Children do not think about these things.  When they become older, they can think for themselves.  Sometimes, they are made to take some things, they are going to be angry about later on. 


      Peter Irniq:  When they were sexually abused as little children, as a result, their childhood was taken away from them?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, that is right.  When they sent me to Chesterfield Inlet to school, I think, it was their attitude that I should be knowledgeable like an adult, at that instant.  This is probably how, we were treated during the time, we were away and for those of us, who were sent away.  Even some of those children, who were not sent out, they were also abused by some teachers.  They forget to notice the fact that they are children!  It’s nice that we have children, they have the freedom to do whatever they want to do, if they want to play in the puddle of water, that’s okay.  The thing is, when you did that in Chesterfield Inlet, then guaranteed, you were going to be whipped.  We were taught to do adult things right away.  Now, you do things the way, adults do, that was how we were treated. 


      Peter Irniq:  Those who were supposed to be our “mothers” and “fathers”, they didn’t have on their hands, any skills, to do with parenting?  Is that right?  It seems like, they did not have any love?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Perhaps yes.  But, maybe because, our culture was too different to their culture.  We even had a Grey Nuns, a Sister, who was an Inuk.  She was just an ordinary employee, so she could defended us but she was not given any powers and had no strength.  She knew the Inuit ways, but she had rules to follow, so she could not do too much.  Those who had authority, had absolutely no idea about Inuit culture, that was the problem.  It was like them saying, “leave your Inuit culture behind.”  Expect instead to becoming a Qablunaat, a Whiteman.  This was what I think, was happening right away, right from the start. 


      Peter Irniq:  When they took us to go to school in Chesterfield Inlet, was it their policy to make us Qablunaat(White People)? 


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  It seems pretty much that way.  I could perhaps say, I do not target the people of Chesterfield Inlet, at all.  I want them to be my friends.  I want to have them as my good neighbors.  But the ones, who were our Supervisors, authorities, they seem to wanted us to become White People.  In regards to the White Man’s culture, learn it well, that was why, we had to follow what his culture was.  Today, you can go sleep and woke up at 12, these children are able to do it, they can do it.  If they totally understand Inuit culture, they can use it.  I think, they wanted us to be assimilated to becoming Qablunaat(White People).    We had to use forks to eat.  When I first using forks to eat, I could not do it at all in the beginning.  It’s not a wonder, when I lived in my hometown, I never, did really see any of these these eating utensils, prior to going to Chesterfield Inlet.  Today, we can use them properly.  My children are taking them at my own home.  At that time, we just did not know how to use them.  We used to eat frozen cow beef,  as there was absolutely no caribou.  We had maktaaq.  We had frozen Arctic Char.  We had fish, whose guts were still in the fish.  When we were going to have boiled fish, they would cut up the fish into chunks, and then, they would have their guts attached to them, that we are now going to eat boiled!  We were made to try and drink the fish broth!  Like, they had guts in them!  Then, we had to eat them.  Prior, that was not how our people did.  They could eat some of the guts but,  they used to and knew how to separate the guts, between what was good to eat and not good to eat.   But, we at the hostel had to follow their rules and eat them, the way they served them, and we had to eat them ..for sure! 


      Peter Irniq:  At our own home, we would not have eat what we ate at the hostel?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  Yes, that was the case.  Here is one, I used to think of quite often.  Whenever we would be leaving for Chesterfield Inlet, my mother used to make me brand new seal skin boots,  that were water proof, but when we got to the Hostel, they were taken away and they gave us new, shoes.  When we got back home to Iglulik, they didn’t appear, they didn’t come back home with us.  My mother used to ask, what ever happened to your seal skin boots?  The only answer I used to give her was, “I don’t know”.  She thought, we would be using them while we were over there.  The thing was, when we left from here, we used them, that was the last time we saw them.  We never knew anything about what happened to them, even though, our mothers worked really hard to make them well, chewing and softening the soles, sewing the entire boots, we used them once and after that, that was it, we never saw them again.  What happened to them?  They just left them to rott!  Should we try to do something about that?  I don’t know.  I think, there is something out there, that we can do something.  Have you had that experience?


      Peter Irniq:  My experience was exactly the same as yours.  When I got home, I check my bag, there was no kamiik(no boots). 


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Here they were, our mothers worked really, really hard to sew those boots.  They sewed them really well, to make them look nice.  How do we retrieve those boots.  I sometimes think of what to do about this. 


      Peter Irniq:  Today, if we could have another meeting, as long as we are alive.   We now meet about the things that happened to us, and we met in Chesterield Inlet, in 1993, July 5 to 9.  We talk about bad things, I mean, not bad things but things that touched us personally, things that had impact on us, and we talked about those issues for five days.  The things that we talked about, things that we worked so hard about, did they help our fellow-Inuit?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  To me, yes.  When we were preparing to go there, I really did not wanted to go, because I wasn’t sure exactly what I was going to get into.  I was think of wonderful times or maybe I wasn’t going to make other people happy but when we got there, we let out, what was bothering us for a long time.  That part had a great deal of help to me.  Perhaps, my friends had felt the same way as me.  Suppose we have another gathering, I think, we could bring out issues that are much more positive this time around.  Over there, we talked a lot about negative impacts on each one of us. 


      Peter Irniq:  If we were to have another reunion and talk about our successes at the Residential School in Chesterfield Inlet.  Would this be helpful?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I would like it very much to talk about the big help this educational facility has had to us who went to Chesterfield Inlet.  Looking back to the time that I was in Chesterfield Inlet, it was not all bad.  The system of moving education, was extremely good.  Looking back, how did we retrieve so much of Inuktitut language, from our parents?  Over there, they wanted to begin stopping Inuktitut in the classroom, but modern education in southern way, something I gain a lot of understanding from.  Can we talk about the foundation of the schools in our communities.  We already know that we are trying to keep on our hands, our Inuktitut language.  We are trying to make sure this happens.  But, education in English,  it is becoming a way of life for Inuit.  I know, we are not going to return to the traditional ways of the Inuit, completely.  Never-the-less, we have to take pride in the fact that our Ancesters have brought us here to this day, even though, it was a long journey.  It think, it would have many uses, if we could meet again in Chesterfield Inlet and talk about the modern education system.  Like, how can we improve the current education system, within Nunavut? 


      Peter Irniq:  Most of all, do you think the Government of Nunavut could learn a great deal from us, who have gone to the Residential School? 


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Some of it, yes.  They could learn some from it.  It is quite obvious.  For example, you Peter Irniq, have participated in the making the Government of Nunavut, perhaps, those who have gone to school there, could provide more strength to the Government of Nunavut.  Especially with what we are trying to do today. 


      Peter Irniq:  When we were going to school there at a residential school, we did not learn almost nothing about Inuit culture.  But looking at the Survivors who went there, they appear to be very strong people.  I think, they could also vision the future.  Also, we had very strong parents at that time.  They knew their Inuit culture in a very big way, and practiced it well.  It would seem to be that these young people who are going to school today, would benefit from learning more about Inuit culture and where Inuit came from.  Especially at the high school level.  If they take more of their own culture, do you think, they could use this for their future strength?  Is this true?  Does it seem to have any truth to it?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:   To think of it, it seems to be true.  I think, we have to return to our past.  For example, in Ottawa, Nunavut Sivuniksavut is working very hard.  They have a lot of responsibility.  What they do is they learn things down there, that they could have learned up here and when that happens, they say, oh, really, we could have learn that at home.  They finally come to that conclusion, when they are learning more about Inuit culture, when they got to Ottawa.  Perhaps, what they learn down there, they could be transferred to Nunavut and put into practice inside the classrooms in Nunavut.  I think, they could gain a lot more knowledge.  Talking about my own children, they do not have a complete knowledge about Inuit culture.  We have not taught them.  We were taught by our parents.  And because, I have other responsibilities, I don’t have all the time in the world, to teach them all.  They should be put inside the classrooms.  They would have a lot of people to our students. 


      Peter Irniq:  Regarding as to what happened to us in Chesterfield Inlet, in terms of what happened to us about abuses and regarding our education system, what would you like to tell our southern Qablunaat in particular in the rest of Canada? 


      Joe Ataguttaaluk: To tell the people down there, maybe if I was a big boss..


      Peter Irniq:  Suppose, you became a Prime Minister of Canada…


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Inuit live here and they know about their land more than anyone else.  They should be asked more questions, what do you want for your land?  What would you want for your territory?  Today it seems as though, we are just put or located here.  Even though, Iglulik is here, and here is what it needs…as a commuity..we are just given things here and there.  And the things that Inuit truly need, they are not coming up, they are not popping up.  Just using Nanisivik as an example, there are no more people there. 


      And now, they just want to give it to the Military.  Why does Military have to be here?  There are lots of other things that need to be considered.  We need instead that we as Inuit can enhance what we need.  Where are they?  I think, these things need to be felt more by the Canadian Government.  Government always, “we have no monies”.  It is pretty obvious now that the designed for Nunavut, particularly of what Inuit need, priorities, things that can allow us move forward, we need to see the money increased.  And for those who are the survivors of residential school, many of them are hurt and need healing.  They say, there is some money for healing but, they are not at all easy to get into.  They seem to be really hard to get into, unless, you have all kinds of policies or have to go through so much red tape to finally get something.  If you can get through all that, then you can finally get some of it.  I think for another, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission on Residential Schools, only has five-year mandate.  But as long as you have rules that are completely tied up, then, it’s not going to be easy.  It is then, it seems, useless to get into it.  Or trying to get something from it.   I don’t know how.


      Peter Irniq:  When we were going to a residential school, they were trying to have us assimilated into the White Man’s world, and not having any Inuit cultural programs for a long time, afterwards.  The school opened in 1953 and closed in 1969. When was it have you decided to retrieve your Inuit identity, or your Inuitness?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Not very long ago.  After Chesterfield Inlet, I returned home, probably in 1969 or 68.  Probably in 1968, I returned home for good.  So, when I got here, I started to work and started to make money, around 1968.  And also, I wanted to take some of the culture of the Qablunaaq(White Man).  But, my father was a full-time hunter, he would be out hunting with his dog team and would return, so my mother would tell me, “go and help your father”.  I tended to follow my mother’s instructions.  Perhaps, it was around that time, that I started to return to the ways of the Inuit, particularly Inuit culture.  It was like this, when my father came home from hunting, then if my mother tells me to go and help my father, then, I would do whatever she wanted me to do, to help my father.  Today, when they are told to do that, they seem to be able to tell you, “wait”.  At that time, it was not possible to say, wait.  When you were told do something, you had to do it, as it was to help someone.  A need to listen and follow what you were told by your mother, was an Inuit way of life and part of our culture.  I think, it was around 1968, I decided immediately, to take back my culture. 


      Peter Irniq:  The teachers who hit us with a yard stick, when they heard us speaking Inuktitut, and they used to severely punish us, it seemed as though, they went overboard, I think, as Inuit, we think that…are you carrying anger towards them?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Part of it, yes, it used to be.  It was during the earlier years that I used to be more angry but since then, I have been talking about it quite a lot, I tend to be carrying less anger.  But, following Inuit culture, if a little child was not behaving, we used to be able to spank them.  Looking back at their system, when the punished us, it was like, they could have just spanked us but they used to go overboard with the punishments, I think, that part broke us apart.  Then later on, the government made law, that you are not to touch your child.  They then, broke more of the Inuit unwritten laws.  Now, up to this day, we are not to do anything at all, to our children, in a way of discipline.  As long as they are able to speak, if you do anything to them, then, they tell the police and the Social Workers get involved, that is the way, they are today.  If the teachers at that time would have been reported about what they were doing, then they could have been dealt with as well.  They hit us!  If they could have used Inuit culture and only spank us, without needing to use a weapon.  I would not have mind so much, if only they spanked us to discipline us, I would not have mind so much but, the yard stick was three feet?  They used those to hit you, and hit you hard!  Then, they could have been dealt with by the Police and by the Social Services!  No one was moved or cared about to do anything about what they did to us.  I used to be very angry at those but having gotten them out of my system, I am no longer angry about them. 


      Peter Irniq:  I have no more questions, Joe, do you have anything else to tell?


      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Hmmm..well, when we were in Chesterfield Inlet, referring to men, especially those, who were our age group, for those of us, who were from the hostel, I wonder why, we allowed ourselves  or for whatever reason, we had them as our enemies or opponents.  For this reason, I have apologized to them.  To those, who lived in their own homes, we were friends inside the classroom.  But, when we got outside of the classroom, we then used to start a fight.  Looking back, I think to myself, what was the use?  What a waste of time, it was!  I have told them personally, I was sorry about this.  And I was very thankful to Andre Tautu, who came from Chesterfield Inlet, he also acknowledged and apologized to us.  I don’t know why, we were doing that, perhaps, because we were just being little children.  I just wanted to emphasize this. 


      Peter Irniq:  Thank you very much to you.  Wonderful!  






      Year of Production: 2008

      Country: Canada


      uploaded date: 10-12-2008