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Joe Kremmidjuar Testimony

Click on 'Read More' for English Translation of Joe Kremmidjuar Testimony by Peter Irniq, February 2009

Joe Kremmidjuar Testimony (May 2008) Iglulik, Nunavut


Peter Irniq: Joe Kremmidjuar, please feel welcome.

Joe Kremmidjuar: I feel very welcome.

Peter Irniq: It is good that I can talk with you about your residential schooling. Can you tell us, how old you were, when you first went to school in Igluligaarjuk(Chesterfield Inlet)? Can you tell us?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes. When I was seven years old, I left for Chesterfield Inlet, from Iglulik. That was in August 1957.

Peter Irniq: Prior to going to school, can you talk about your life style. You had your parents, your sister, can you tell us about your prior Inuit being?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Ones, I remember…I can tell a story about them. At that time, we did not live in Iglulik all the time. We often lived outside of Iglulik. It was wonderful, living at a outpost camp. We used to live at Akkimaniq, north of here. I was quite aware with the ability to remember. But, when I was five years old, my father passed away. I don’t remember that part but I remember very well, when I would travel by dog team. I used to have my own dogs. After my father had died, I used to be like that, living close to Iglulik, when we used to live in Qikiqtaarjuk(Small Island). That priest, apparently used to tell my mother, “that this Jusipi, will never learn, modern education, as he only wanted to travel by dog team.” That was how I was, and the priest knew all about this. However, when I turn seven years old, it was apparently my time, to go to school.

Peter Irniq: At that time, when you were living outside of Iglulik, did you lead a real Inummarik(a True Inuk) life?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, yes! After I no longer had a father, it seems his death made me remember everything. We would stay in a qarmaq(sod hut) and live in a tent in the summer time. But then, when I went to Chesterfield Inlet, I would enter a Qablunaat(White People’s) houses, for the first time. Here in Iglulik, it’s original name is Ikpiarjuk(pocket/bag), but now known as Iglulik, only the Roman Catholic priests, and the staff of the Hudson’s Bay Company, they were the only ones living in (wooden) houses. There was no police. The Anglican Missionaries, known by Inuit as “Ajuriqsuijit” were not here, during early 1950’s, but only at the end of the 50’s, they came.

Peter Irniq: When you lived outside of Iglulik, do you remember the names of the places, where you used to live at?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, we used to live in Qikiqtaarjuk, when I no longer had a father. But, we apparently lived at Akkimaniq, north of here, while I still had a father. But, when my father died, we moved to Qikiqtaarjuk, yes, I remember very well.

Peter Irniq: Can you talk a bit about your hunting life then, also about fishing as well?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, we used to go caribou hunting. We had caribou meat, walrus, fish, the complete works. We had everything, as there was no shortage any of those animals. We had seal skins. As Inuit, we had no way of knowing, anything about modern rubber boots, hip waders, shoes, let alone imagining them.

Peter Irniq: The Qablunaat that were there at that time, did they dress like the Inuit as well, or the way they always did, like the White People?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, there was only the Hudson’s Bay Company traders, and the Roman Catholic priests, that was about all. There were no Anglican missionaries, but only in the beginning of the 1960’s, we only got RCM Police. They were really behind from the other communities. Iglulik was behind. The only Qablunaat were the Hudson’s Bay Company people and the RC Missionaries.

Peter Irniq: When you went to the store, what was it like, how did it smell?

Joe Kremmidjuar: It was a very pleasant smell/oder, when you would go into a store. It smell like the Qablunaat, (as oppose to Inuit smell, who lived traditionally in iglus or sod houses). The smell of a Qablunaat life, was very nice smell, it was different.

Peter Irniq: Was it because of the southern supplies that were at the store?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, it was because of the store supplies that smelled really good, that were there for us to buy. Both the priests and Hudson’s Bay Company houses, were never locked. Whether it smelled like the White People, but the scent was definitely different from Inuit oder.

Peter Irniq: What did you use to buy things?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I remember noticing that we traded furs, such as fox skins and seals, perhaps there were others. When we would go to buy things, they would use sticks or metal coins, to indicate, how much money, we got.

Peter Irniq: (Start from time 8:33 again) At that time, when you used to trade your furs, such as foxes or seals, do you remember when you used to buy with them?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I don’t remember so much about what was bought. We the children and the young ones, never thought too much about what was bought. But, they bought tea, sugar, flour and baking powder, and other things such as bullets for rifles, and some big items such as rifles, and boats. We never used to think how much they were worth to us, and other things that were inside the store. Things that were bought, didn’t seem to have any use for us children. However, they were mainly to do with the adults.

Peter Irniq: Prior to going to school in Chesterfield Inlet, was your mother told about the fact that, you were going to be going to school?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Whether she was told or not, I never noticed or remembered. It was time to leave for school, that was it! We were never told about this ahead of time, that we would leave on a certain day, “be prepared to leave and plan ahead”, that was unheard of.

Peter Irniq: You have a sister that you went to school with to Chesterfield Inlet. Can you describe with what happened, just when you were leaving?

Joe Kremmidjuaq: When the plane had arrived, there were a number of us, young boys and young girls, who were hoisted to the airplane. There were those parents, seeing their children leaving. There was no one as it seemed, concerned about their feelings, whether they thought it was okay or not okay, or agreed with us leaving them. This was not immediately known. It was like, we were snatched from our parents, just like that! Roman Catholic priests were very big bosses! If they say, you will be like that, then you are going to be like that! Then would then, have to follow their instructions. There was no way around it. Then, we were told to board the airplane by them. AS we had no airstrip in Iglulik the, the single engine airplane landed on the water, with floats. We then boarded the plane. That was it.

Peter Irniq: The airplane would beach on the shore?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes.

Peter Irniq: When you left Iglulik, where did you go through?

Joe Kremmidjuar: When we would leave from Iglulik, we would go direct to Naujaat-Repulse Bay. Some of those people from Naujaat, who were going to school there, would come on board to the airplane as well. Sometimes, we would overnight there. Sometimes, the airplane would land along the route, enroute to Chesterfield Inlet. Especially, when we had to land.

Peter Irniq: Was it because, they thought, they were running low on gas?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Perhaps, yes. Those kinds of things, you just didn’t think about. We would be too startled having left our parents and our community, to think about other things like that. What was very startling about it was, here we saw an airplane come in, then we were hoisted by a priest, to go on board, that was it. It was like, you saw a plane, “go in.”

Peter Irniq: What would have happened you think, if your parents did not wanted you to go on board?

Joe Kremmidjuar: If they did not wanted us to go, at that point, my mother had said, “once he gets bigger, once he is another year older”, no one heard her. Inuit voices, Inuit concerns, didn’t have any impact on the priest, what-so-ever!

Peter Irniq: Were you the youngest one at seven years old, who was sent off to school?

Joe Kremmidjuar: From among our group of students who were going to school, there was some who were younger than I am, for one, my older brother’s daughter, was a bit younger than I am.

Peter Irniq: What were the ages of the oldest ones?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Eight, nine, around there.

Peter Irniq: When you would get to Naujaat-Repulse Bay, would you stay with families or at the Roman Catholic Mission, if you had to overnight?

Joe Kremmidjuar: They would put us up with the priests at the Roman Catholic Mission. Sometimes, some would be staying with families, as long as they are related. Some of those people from Naujaat, as long as they knew, some of the children were their relatives, then they would take them for night. But, some of us, would stay at the RC Mission.

Peter Irniq: When you left for the first time that August, do you remember what the inside of the plane was like?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes. That airplane was one engine, known as a Beaver. It had no seats. When we all got boarded into the plane, they just sat us down, on the floor. It was as thought, we were gathered together, like bunch of dogs. It was just like that.

Peter Irniq: Did you get air sick?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I didn’t notice this. I was perhaps too startled, about all what was going on.

Peter Irniq: It must have been very difficult, when you left your parents for the first time.

Joe Kremmidjuar: Was it hard? Yes! Was it hard to leave? All of us say, yes! As it was so very hard, the words to say it, don’t seem to have any strength! When we left, we will not be having any more conversation with them. We will not write a letter to them. At that time, we had no way of using telephones. There was none of those. We never even imagined, having them. Only the Roman Catholic priests, used them. To us, they were unthought of. We would have never been allowed to use them to communicate.
It was useless to write. If I write a letter to my mother, and write about things that I did not agree with. For instance, if I say, “I am homesick”, the letter will be read by those who were looking after us, the Grey Nuns/Sisters. If they see and heard, what we did not like, they would spank/whip us, guaranteed! They would have done anything to us, punish us, what-ever-way, they consider fit! We were not to write letters like that, words, that they did not wanted to hear. When we write, they would not send them out! Writing letter was actually useless.

Peter Irniq: The letters we wrote were read?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes. They were read. They would have been never sent, they would have been thrown away in the garbage. Those of us, who wrote the way we did, became no good. We were told that we lied to our mothers. And to our fathers. They had all of us, tied to their hands. They also held on to our thoughts. When I say, they, I mean, the Grey Nuns, the priests, and others, who were looking after us. They said, “you have to be like this.”

Peter Irniq: When you first arrived to Chesterfield Inlet, what was it like?

Joe Kremmidjuar: It was extremely frightening! No wonder, I was seven years old. I was home sick. I wanted to go to my mother, as I had no more father, when I left. At one time, when I was playing outside, it was very beautiful to be outside. I was outside with Sabina, my sister. I started to cry and said to her: “with that canoe down in the water, please let someone take me home.” That was how much, it was hurtful. But, even, if you tried hard, it was impossible. But, that was what I wanted to do. At that point, Sabina, also became very sad.

Peter Irniq: The “Big House” – the Turquetil Hall, what was it like, can you describe it?


Joe Kremmidjuar: The house, where we were housed at, the “basement” was a brother, a brother, belonging to the Roman Catholic Church. Brother Parent, as he was known, he was a baker, downstairs. He baked bread. There was also engines, which were maintained, by another brother. The first floor was for the boys and the third floor was for the girls. That was how, it was done.

Peter Irniq: The Turquetil Hall had a lot of rules and regulations. Can you talk about them?

Joe Kremmidjuar:Yes, absolutely. The rules were awesome! The boys had a dorm here..if we were going to go outside, it was a rule that we would go outside first. This was before the girls went out. Since, this was our place, when the boys went out first, then they have to play outside in this area. The girls, who came out after us, they have to play in this opposite area. As the rule goes, we were not to be together. And the Grey Nuns, who were there as our Supervisors, were making sure, that they always watched us. They did this by walking back and forth, in between the boys and girls. They made sure that the boys and girls, didn’t sneaked and get together. If you see on TV today, people who are incarcerated in Afghanistan or any where else, they are being watched over, that’s just the way, we were watched. That was how, we were treated.

Peter Irniq: You were not free to do what you wanted to do?

Joe Kremmidjuar: We were not at all free to do what we wanted to do! And when we went outside, we just didn’t get ready and go out. They marched us by two’s, side by side when we went out, just like they do with military style. And as children, we were not allowed to do silly things, that was how, they treated us, just like, they would have us walk in two’s, when we were being sent to a church. Same thing, when they sent us off to school.

Peter Irniq: Were you able to talk to the girls?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Only sometimes, we could, perhaps at school. And only in English. I was forbidden to speak to my sister. As the rule goes, only time, I was able to talk to her was on Sundays. And it was from 4 p.m. to 5 p.m., for one hour. We would go to our dining room. If it was this table, I would sit here and my sister, would sit across from me. Then, we would be able to talk. But then again, our Supervisors, the Grey Nuns, would keep their eyes on us, all the time. They would keep listening and hear about what we had to say, all the time. That was how, we were treated.

Peter Irniq: Some of the punishment were very serious. Can you talk about different types of punishments?

Joe Kremmidjuar: The language itself doesn’t appear to be scary. But, being physically hurt. To get hurt on the body, it seemed, it was nothing and maybe even thankful. But, when you were hurt inside you, that was extremely offending! We had one huge dormitory, with many beds, next to each other. On the other side there, there was a playroom, where, we used to get together in the evenings. Sometimes, some of us would go to sleep without any pajamas at all. As long as the Sisters did not agree with this, they would let us sleep on the floor.

Peter Irniq: And yet, you had a bed.

Joe Kremmidjuar: Here, we had a bed. Ones, that used to say it was very hard..ones that went to Iqaluit and Churchill..no..when I went to Churchill to attend Churchill Vocational Center, it was as though, I was on holidays. That was exactly how I thought. They were free to do anything. They smoked cigarettes, and speaking with girls. They were free to wear any type of clothing, they wanted to. When I went to Churchill, it was such an easy life.

Peter Irniq: In Chesterfield Inlet, some students were very young, youngest one perhaps being six years old, I don’t know..when they were sending us off to sleep there, they would put the lights out. Do you remember hearing the little ones crying, being homesick for home?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, I could hear them crying. Sometimes, they would cry quietly, so no one would hear them. They would cry for their mothers and fathers. When they started doing that, then you would start following them, even though, you were resisting to do it.

Peter Irniq: Were the Supervisors, the Grey Nuns, hear when they were crying?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, they heard them but the thing was, they would hurt them. They would tell them not to cry. They would punish them on the spot! These people, wanted to run everything. They wanted to control everything, our physical bodies, our emotions and our minds. Including our thoughts inside our brain. The Sisters wanted to control all of them, and they did.

Peter Irniq: They were not comforted, when they were crying?

Joe Kremmidjuar Yes. And yet, these Sisters are Christians. They would have never comforted anyone. They would punish and physically hurt the children. They would whip them and hit them with yard sticks.

Peter Irniq: And yet, they were our “mothers and fathers?”

Joe Kremmidjuar: That’s them!

Peter Irniq: Did you believe that they did not have love or compassion?

Joe Kremmidjuar: They were confusing. The only thing, they taught us was about believing or Christianity. They taught us mostly about Jesus. We prayed and prayed since getting there. But the way, they did things, were very unchristian. They were only intimidating people. As a result, we expected bad things to happen. We never expected to get positive things. But, when the month of May comes around, we started to hear really nice things. Why was this? We were soon to be going home. It was only during this period, that they became very nice. And yet, they still worked to fix our brains. “Look, you were treated very well here.” On during this period, then they started to do good things, knowing full well, that we would be going home soon. It looked as though, what ever happened to us between August and May, was completely erased!

Peter Irniq: What was it like when you first entered a classroom. Do you remember?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Things that were drilled into our minds, they are never to be forgotten. No wonder, we saw these different kinds of houses..it was very awesome! Including the one that we were going to use as our school. When we got into the school, we had different sets of groups, from the lowest ones, to the ones that can do it best(Higher Grades). That was how, we were set up. We also got to know, who our teachers going to be. They were identified for us. At that time, in the school, Sisters were not the only teachers. There were ordinary Qablunaat(White People) teachers, women.

Peter Irniq: It is well known that we were not allowed to speak our Inuktitut language. Can you talk about that?

Joe Kremmidjuar: To speak Inuktitut, it was truly a scary one. To do so, you would have been hit with a chalk, hit with a yard stick, as well as erasers. They were truly hurting you, in a very big way. They would pull your hair. You were kicked, hit with a fist, that was how, we were treated.

Peter Irniq: Since we were not allowed to speak our Inuktitut language, do you remember well, what happened to you, if you were caught speaking Inuktitut? What would have happened to you?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes. Of course. They would pull us by the ear, or pull us by our hair. Then, they would put us in the corner of the classroom. We were then scolded very loudly, and told, “you are stupid, you are useless!” It’s unbelievable about how, we were treated. Scary!

Peter Irniq: Do you remember one of our teachers, used to take a young boy or a girl by the front, and threw them against them? Do you remember something like that?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, I used to see it. Yes, it hurts to see young boys being thrown like that, it was even more hurtful, to see young girls being thrown around like that. Sometimes, a teacher would throw a chalk at a very close range and obviously, the student would be very hurt physically. They tried not to cry. At that time, during the school period, someone who was the same height as me, but a bit older, he was regularly made to be scared and intimidated like that, that person is still not talk much about that to this day. It is because, he was intimidated too much at that time. Today, some people make fun of him because, he is not able to talk much. But, this person doesn’t know that he was abused too much, mentally, inside his head.

Peter Irniq: Could you not talk back to the teachers then?

Joe Kremmidjuar: To talk back, it would have been a big mistake, it was very scary.

Peter Irniq: Do you think, we would have been sent home, if we did talk back? Or, would we have been scolded severely?

Joe Kremmidjuar: We would not have been sent home. They would have made sure, things would have been harder for us. This was to make sure the others were taught a lesson, that you are not supposed to do this!

SEXUAL ABUSES

Peter Irniq: Today, these times, the way we were abused, is talked about, quite a lot, by many survivors. People talk about having been sexually abused, when we were little children. Can you talk about this, about what you know?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, I can voice something about that. That part, for many of us, it’s something that has broken us up. We have been hiding it. We did not wanted to be seen as something that “I am very different perhaps?” “Am I a terrible person?” ”Am I the only one like that?”

To bring this out from inside of you, from your heart, it feels like you are being torn apart, inside. It seems like, a wound that you have, an ancient wound, is finally being, opened up. To start talking about it at first, you feel, no one is going to believe me. People are just going to laugh and make fun of me. Like, it is scary! To use the kind of life like that, to think, you are different from others, and on the other hand, to be kicked, and be hit with a ruler, it almost seems like, you are saying, that you are almost thankful.

The pain doesn’t seem to be as great! And to think of it, it seems like, that experience of being his and kicked, it’s seems almost like it’s wonderful. That part of the emotion is something, no one will ever see it, it cannot appear, you cannot see it. The only thing is, you have to talk about it. We were not about to get help from different Inuit. We were even told, I am not going to be along, when you guys are making this public. I don’t want to be considered to be “one of those(,men who do with men).” Some people who are in positions of high authority, are thinking like that. These same people want to be elected so that they can help their fellow-Inuit. But, when we started to put this issue to public, which is very difficult to undertake, they said, “we don’t want to be part of it.” They say, “I don’t want people to think, that I am gay.”

Now, money is also being talked about. Only when the money is being talked about as a compensation to the survivors, they finally want to be part of it, they want to be seen in person. But, when we were turning the pages to bring out this whole issue of sexual abuse, which was extremely difficult to talk about, they did not want to be part of it. They did not want to come along. They don’t want other people to think, they are bad. Are those kinds of people to be leaders?! No! The people who can say, yes and no, those are the ones, that should be the leaders. Those that only promote only the good side of things, they would never find solutions. It was extremely painful to be in Chesterfield Inlet. Today, the Elders, if they could only hear, they would say, “it’s difficult to believe it.”

Peter Irniq: Those who did these things, the priests, the sisters, the Qablunaat, did you know who they were?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I cannot name them all. There are some I can identify. Christian Brother and a Sister. Those are the two, I can identify.

Peter Irniq: When they were going to do this, what did they do?

Joe Kremmidjuar: “You don’t have to tell anyone, about this.” “If you tell anyone, you will go to Hell.” They used the Christianity beliefs as intimidation. These Brothers, when they were about to propose, their breath and voice, used to be very nervous, from way, way inside. They would speak or even just breathing, they would be very nervous. To hear their breath, it was very nervous. It was very obvious that they were not their usual normal self. It was very scary, for me. Perhaps, to all of us. It was like, all my insights, my guts, intestines, became very cold. It was because, I was too scared! To be touched by a fellow-man, how would you, yourself describe it, how can to tell about it? It is difficult to tell about it. But, because, the feel of it, very different. There is nothing like it. To those, who do not know anything about it, they think it’s funny. They do that to their fellow-men, they tease them, they don’t understand the abuse. Perhaps because, they are hiding something as well. It is a very different to be abused like that.

Peter Irniq: Did you tell your fellow-students then, about these things?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Absolutely not! It was not possible to talk about this, especially being abused by a fellow-man. At least, when I was at home in Iglulik, you just didn’t think about these things, at all, especially among my relatives and friends, prior to going to school. No one ever thought about men doing these to each other, that is. Only when I became associated with the Qablunaat(White People) by going to school, this became visible. It was hard enough to start learning about Qablunaaq ways, but then, it was even harder when these things to do with men to men, women to women, were being practiced. So, these Roman Catholic missionaries, did they get us Inuit together, to teach us about these things? Did they wanted us to learn about these things? Were they planning for us to get angry? Is that the reason why, they are priests? Is this the reason why, they are Sisters? They then teach us about all these things, and why the heck do they call themselves Christians and believers? This issue truly makes you angry!

Peter Irniq: Did you detoured a way of life?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Not only did they detoured a way of life. They not only directed these things at one person. But our children and our grandchildren, are now involved. Looking at my own situation, I was a big time, drunk with liquor! That was like trying to hide all this shame. As it is totally something, different. When I was drinking, I became very angry, then I was hurting someone else. I would become a very scary person! This was all to do with hiding something. I didn’t wanted to use it. It was very embarrassing to use it, personally. And yet, I called myself a man. I was no longer considered a man, I became just someone who was hurting some one else. I became just someone who was intimidating some one else.

Peter Irniq: At that time, if we would have had someone to tell, I wonder if we would have been believed, if we had complained?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I don’t think so!

Peter Irniq: At that time, if we could have complained, was there was no one to complain to?

Joe Kremmidjuar: This type of activity is was not part of Inuit culture, even probably to this day. Inuit are not like that. Perhaps, it is coming out, in some areas. And yet, these are the priests, these are the sisters, and these are the Christians! They pray every day and hear sinners all the time. They have Jesus!

Peter Irniq: In 1993, we had a Reunion of the Turquetil Hall/Sir Joseph Bernier Federal Day School, survivors. We wanted to start our healing journey. So we met in July. Can you talk about the healing journey, we were undertaking at that time?

Joe Kremmidjuar: The thought at that time was, how will I be looked at, what and how will I be thought of, how will it help me, personally. How will it change my life? Who will understand me? Will I just say something that is embarrassing to others? Will my fellow-Inuit hate me? But the thing is, when you are not alone, you have a wife, children and grandchildren, you truly want to fix it. You want to show them love, strength. Well, if you have to fall down yourself for a while, then you can let it out, and begin a healing journey. That is the way to move forward. If we only want people to like us, and as long as we keep hiding what we have, we are not going to move forward and heal. No only us, but all of us! It doesn’t matter where you were educated, it doesn’t matter where you live, it doesn’t matter at all. It doesn’t matter about all this embarrassment. Once, you get it all out, then you can breathe freely, for the first time, in your life. That was my situation. Wow, I can breathe much easier now. I can now make all this public, it’s because, I love my wife, my children and my grandchildren.

We are like this, we tell our wives, or our husbands, our children and tell them we love them. At the same time, when we are using alcohol, drugs and beating up our spouses, as long as we are using those, I don’t think, we are truly promoting love and compassion. If we truly love our relatives, then let us stand up and try to be strong. If we want to truly show that we can do it, then let us use all these good things, and then stand up. It’s okay, to let yourself fall for a while, as long as you can go back up again, let it all out!

Peter Irniq: During the time we met, there were about 150 of us, who met, we were really looking for help from people. Did you get any help from your fellow-Inuit?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I wish, I could say yes, but I have to say no! We were not helped. The only thing we were told was that, those that were in Chesterfield Inlet, all they are, is that they are different. They are like this. We had people, who did not wanted to attend, in case, they were going to be made to be bad people, by the public.

There were those, who tried hard to help all of us. We have to recognize them. I commend them for doing so! Those who are the leaders of today, only when the issue of compensation came up for survivors of residential school, then they decided to finally came to “help. When it became extremely hard for us survivors – it was like when the seal had “climbed up to the ice.” It was like we were in the water. When we were trying to “climb on to the ice” the leaders of the day, never came near us! If they came to help me, I would have been too different from others to help out. If I would have told them, “I’ll give you some money,” then, they would have come to help me. Yes, we had people like that. And today, they want to be elected! Yes, I am thankful that this help is now appearing, coming along. And yes, thank you very, very much. This issue was started, even though, it was very hard to do. There were people, who worked very hard to begin this work. It would have been much more thankful, if our today’s leaders would have come along to help us too. If they could have agreed with us. This stuff was too horrible for their liking and even to come and help us out! That is no leadership to me! How regretful! How unfortunate!

Peter Irniq: What would you say to Canadians today, about our experiences at the residential school? Especially about, how we were abused?

Joe Kremmidjuar: How?

Peter Irniq: What would you want them to know?

Joe Kremmidjuar: To help us out?

Peter Irniq: Yes.”This is the way we were treated. What would you like Canadian to know? What would you tell them? Do you understand?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I don’t understand.

Peter Irniq: What would you like to tell our fellow-Canadians, what would you like to tell them today?

Joe Kremmidjuar: The issue has to be fully understood – the issue that we are trying to talk about. It is being heard all over. Now the Canadian Government is making the issue appear more on the table. This is what is going to be talked about. The issue that is being talked about by the Canadian Government, is very good to hear. The terrible issue which was placed un to the Aboriginal People is now talked about in terms of how to proceed with it. The Canadian have not completely reached to the end.

So the ones that are going to run this organization are all Indians. The First Nations and Inuit are not the same from each other. We are also Aboriginal People but when identify us as Inuit, we are considered differently. And it is true. Ones who live in the south, are Aboriginal People. Inuit are different. We are not Aboriginals! For example, at the time when the Healing Foundation was established, there was $25 million for healing. Much bigger chuck of that money was used for those in the south, the Indians. Now, the healing journey is s tarting to happen about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, again, there are no Inuit from Inuit homelands! How are we being looked at? We were the ones to push all this to start. But then, we are just on sidelines! Yes, it is good that this is being started but let’s have more Inuit voices! We have to have a voice3! They are still, just the way they were, long time ago, making Inuit as just “yes” people. We are not going to just say yes, any more, to whatever. This is the type of experience, they have gotten used to, from their past experiences with the Inuit. Whatever we were told to do, we just said, “yes, yes.” Inuit were taught never to talk back to the Whiteman. We are not like that today. Inuit were broken too, we need to have our own truth and reconciliation organization, one that will heal us. We need to say something, by voicing our own opinions.

Peter Irniq: What we learned in school at that time about learning to speak English and write English. What can you say about that?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes, I have always been thankful for what we were educated about. It is extremely useful. It has a huge help today, for me, personally. We were very well educated! Learning English, writing English, adding arithmetic, yes, it is not only a wonderful experience but I am very thankful, for sure. They are useful for me today help those, who have never been to school.

Peter Irniq: What we expereicned at that time in terms of modern education, is it better than what we have today, does it seem that way? I don’t know.

Joe Kremmidjuar: Part of it yes, from what I have seen. At that time, the education system for example, came from England. About the English language, how to write it properly, and do arithmetic properly, we were taught very well about those things. Today’s education is very different – they are talking and learning any old way now. To see the homework of my children and my grandchildren, I ask them what they learned that day? This is what we did today. They just seem to do things just any old way. When we started schooling at that time, we were around six or seven years old. We learn to do things very well, like adding arithmetic. Today, they just use computers. Yes, it’s nice to work with those but that is what you use today to work with, in the workplace. But what we learn at that time has a huge useage!

Peter Irniq: What did we learn?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Arithmetic, learning about the earth, the world, social studies, science, maps and how to do things, language issues, even about believing in religion. But, I do not hold on to believing. I don’t know why, but all the others we learned have a lot of impact on me.

Peter Irniq: Did you learn about Inuktitut in the classroom?

Joe Kremmidjuar: No. No. We had to learn the ways of the White people. We were only being taught about their ways. While I was still growing up and those of us, who grew up around outpost camps in the Kivalliq Region, Qitirmiut and Baffin Island, all were eventually gathered together by the White People and their ways, to be like them. At that point, they no longer traveled by dog team, now some had jobs, I don’t think, they did not wanted you to go all the way either in educating you. White People have always said, “Inuit are very simplistic people and very easy going people.” “Their minds are easy to get at.” That is what they have always said. They wanted you to learn small things like being a cook, seamstress, becoming a Christian Brother, they wanted to teach us about small things. They thought, Inuit were just drinking alcohol, they are just abusers, now they are labelling us with those, even thought they got us started us on all these things. But, they wanted us to be assimilated into their being. When Inuit started to use their culture, then, they didn’t agree with it.

Peter Irniq: Why, were we sent to Chesterfield Inlet, to do what?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I don’t know. Only the Roman Catholic believers were sent to that school. Anglican believers and others were not sent there. I don’t know how they wanted end result to be fixed.

Peter Irniq: Perhaps, they wanted to become White People?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Perhaps, yes. Perhaps they wanted to control more Inuit. I think, they thought we were always going to be unable to do things ourselves. One time I was very angry and said to one priest, while they were having a meeting. This priest was one of the members of this committee. I went to their meeting. When I spoke, I said things, quite on purposely. I spoke English. Then the priest started to scold me. “You are an Inuk, you have to speak Inuktitut!” he said. As for me, I got angry and was no longer intidimated by any one. I said to the priest. “Hey priest, when my mother did not wanted me to go to school because I was too small, and you send me away. I have now learn the White People’s ways. What you have taught me, I have become and am using it. I am not going to stop any more!” After that, he did not answer back. Perhaps, he learned his lesson about these people, who can now answer back to him! Inuit are no longer intimidated.

Peter Irniq: Do you remember what you ate at the Turquetil Hall Residence?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes! We ate beans! What I ate was Arctic Char at home, before I went to that school. I ate Inuit foods, before I went to school, such as seal meat, you know animals. When we got to that hostel, we ate at times fish, that was very old, at times, it was even rancid or congealed oil greased fish! And Arctic Char heads, I always thought, they were for adults to eat, I was growing up. We ate Arctic Char heads for supper, and had tea.

Peter Irniq: Do you remember these fish still had guts?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Yes! I remember noticing that! Well, at least if they were fresh fish! But, they were very old, aaahhh, they were really bad tasting! When we were eating, Sisters would be walking around our table, holding a yard stick on their hands. They would yell at us, “finish it!” Then, they would hit the top of the table with a yard stick!! This was to make sure, that we finished eating our meal.

Peter Irniq: When we had a Reunion of the Residential School Survivors in 1993 in Chesterfield Inlet. Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diosese for the Hudson Bay, delivered an apology, did you agree with his apology?

Joe Kremmidjuar: No! I don’t know how to say it but I totally disagreed with it. He never said, he was sorry! All he said was, he wanted to get this whole thing over with! He never completed what he had to say. With it, all he wanted to do was to shut us up! He was apparently very strong to the Roman Catholic, especially to the ones, he represented. He had a great authority within his church, after all, he was their Leader, in the Hudson Bay Diocese. To us, all he wanted to say was and only in part, and to shut us up. He said yes to part of it and said no to the other part of his apology. At that time, it was not good apology.

Peter Irniq: On February 27, 1996, Bishop delivered another apology in Iglulik. Were you there?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I think, I was there, yes.

Peter Irniq: That other apology, what did you think of it?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I did not notice it much, whether he said something really new or big.

Peter Irniq: At that time, you already said this but, when we were going to be going home in the spring time, the Sisters used to get really nice, do you remember what sisters, the priests and the teachers used to say?

Joe Kremmidjuar: What they used to do was to give us candies and gums, often. And we were not going to keep those either, they would be snatched from us, by one of our fellow-Inuit at the hall(because he was a big bully). The supervisors would send us to the church, a bit more often, than previously. They would let us pray for good weather so that we would leave for home, in time. And perhaps, we were doing some of the prayings for ourselves too, as we were always very homesick. They would all become extra-nice, nice to us. They try in every way possible for us to think about nice things – “you were treated really well in the past year, be sure to come back in the fall time.” That was what they used to say to us.

Peter Irniq: You said earlier as a Roman Catholic, you prayed a lot. How do you look at the Church and your too much prayings at that time, today?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I came to the point where I did not at all wanted to use it any more. I was looking ways whereby I was king “what does this believing mean?” They taught us, believing means, believing in God and Jesus, and yet, they preached to us bad things. They taught about scary and intimidating things. It seems like, I did not at all want to be part of it any more. Really, I have been kicked out of the Roman Catholic Church, anyways. I was kicked out after I divorced my wife. That what the priest did and I don’t mind it. I was as usual not good! When this took place, I then switched to Anglicans. Well, at one point, I really thought of no longer believing in the Roman Catholic or Anglican Church. And only wanted to believe in non-denominational organization, to something even higher, I don’t know to who but perhaps to God. I did not wanted to use RC or Glad Tidings, or Penticostals, all those and not use any of the names. I only wanted to believe only to “the one”, that was how I was thinking.

Peter Irniq: When you got back to Iglulik from Chesterfield Inlet, when you set food on your own land, how was it?

Joe Kremmidjuar: Wow! It was unbelievable! Maybe, it was such happiness inside me that it made me anxious, not calm or peaceful, crying! It was because we were brainwashed to the maximum in Chestesterfield Inlet. After we have been at home for three weeks or a month, as soon as my mother would touched me to wake me up, I’d be up immediately or on the spot. This was something I’ve gotten very used to in Chesterfield Inlet. My mind was totally brainwashed a lot continually, so I just got used to it at home. Some time after, maybe in a month or so, I’d be normal again, only to go back in August, for the same things, August to May. When I get there, I will then again be made to repeat, all that stuff.

Peter Irniq: You were mentioning that you no longer wanted to use alcohol and have gone beyond all this, and reached your own destination. What kind of strength and vision have you been given and who gave it to you, so that you can see ahead far away?

Joe Kremmidjuar: I have looked at my Inuit being/life. Looking at myself, I have received help. My wife, my children, my grandchildren, if I truly love them, then I would have to fix my life.

This is o that I will net be able to destroy some one else’s life. Having done or gone through all this in my life time, it’s like, I have tears inside me. I have thought of both unhappiness and happiness. I have had the most wonderful help, like from my wife. If it were not for her, I would have just felt sorry for myself, that I am like this and that, that I have been mae to feel hurt, and I cannot fix myself for the better. I am very thankful, she is standing with me. Thank you!

She has allowed herself to stand next to me. When I reached ouit to her with my hand, she has held my hand. This includes my children, and my grandchildren. I will continue to go through sometimes what seems impossible, but I want to move forward for ever! Life is scary, as long as you do not try to use it properly with respect. And thankfulness is always very awesome, as it get out, the way you feel. It is not eough to say, thank you. There are people out there who want to help. But when you go through hard times, difficult times, rough times, scary times, my wife has been beside me on my immediate side, not leave all alone, Wow!

Thank you very, very much!

Peter Irniq: Thank you so very much! You are also such a strong person! You have such strong voice!

Filmmaker: Zacharias Kunuk

Year of Production: 2008

Country: Canada

See more

Ḵwaan sda: Testimony I Residential Schools

    • 1h 56m 16s

      Peter Irniq Testimony

      uploaded by: Zacharias Kunuk

      channel: Truth and Reconciliation

      Click on 'Read More' for English Translation of Testimony by Peter Irniq, May 2008

      English Translation of Testimony by Peter Irniq, May 12, 2008, Iglulik, Nunavut


      Peter Irniq: We had a terrible Hudson’s Bay Trader back in 1956, like many of these people, were terrible. That summer in 1956, the Dew Line ships came and when left later on, they left a whole lot of material. Some things like pellets beach along the shore line, so one day, my father and Celestino and his father, walked over to where these pellets were beached, with the idea of taking them back to our tent. When we got there, the two adults, Celestino’s father and my father tie up the pellets with a seal skin rope, and Celestino’s father, started to pull the pellets back to his tent. Right at this point, this Bay Manager came along with his Jeep. With his was his girlfriend, even though, he was married. Well, me I took a beached light bulb, that was no longer going to be used, as I wanted it as my toy. Just when the Bay Manager was coming up, my father said to Amarualik, who was pulling the pellets, back to his tent. “He’s coming to get you!” meaning, the Bay Manager. He dropped his load and ran like heck to his tent, running away from the Bay Manager. My father waited for the Bay Manager to stop. When he stopped, he ordered my father not to touch the pellets. “Don’t touch those pellets, they will be used again.” My father responded in Inuktitut that translated into something like this: “You are a big lyer!” Then, he pointed to the woman inside the jeep and said to the Bay Manager, “she will be used again, stop being with her!”

      That night Amarualik came over to visit and while drinking tea, they had a great big laugh about what happened that day. All they wanted to do was to use the pellets for qamutiik(sleigh) cross bars. The thing was, nothing was going to happen to the two men or the two of us boys. They were also not going to re-use the burned out light bulbs.

      Zach Kunuk: Perhaps, you could tell a story about where you were born.

      Peter Irniq: Yes, I was born in Naujaarjuat(A place of plentiful seagulls fledgelings) Lyon Inlet. My parents are known around here in the Amittuq, particularly by Elders. My father’s name was Angutitaq and my mother’s name was Katak. My sister’s name was Iguttaq. My older brother’s name was Ipuittuq Ivaluqut. Prior to my birth, they used to live around here. They lived here, perhaps from around 1940 to about 1946. At that particular period of time, they traveled by dog team from Gjoa Haven’s Utkuhiksalik(Back River) to Naujaat’s Ukkusiksalik(Repulse Bay’s Wager Bay). They lived there for a time, then they traveled this way through Naujaat-Repulse Bay, Sanirajak(Hall Beach) and then to Iglulik. They traveled all the way here, by dog team only. They used to talk a lot about people from this Region. When I became an adult, I got to meet the people they met and I used to say to myself, “oh those are the people, that my parents used to talk about”.

      Over there, we never lived really in the community of Naujaat – the Settlement, as we were true Inuit, living off the land traditionally. We were true Inuit, with truly living the Inuit traditional ways. For example, for those watching us, we lived much like the ones that Isuma Produced sometime ago, Nunavut Series. The ones you guys made. At these scenes in the spring time, that is exactly how we used to live. We used to look for eggs, when there were eggs. And also, we hunt young mature seals, called Nattiat in the spring time as well. We went fishing, when it was time to fish. My father fished with kakivaak(fish leisters), that is how, he used to catch fish. He used to do this on the rivers and on the lake ice. He used iqaluujaq(fish inviter without a hook). As you pull the iqaluujaq up and down, just like jigging for fish, the fish would come, and my father would spear the fish down below, with his kakivaak. He used to catch a lot of fish, along with my brother-in-law at that time.

      I grew up in a place called Nattiligaarjuk(a lake that has seals) Committee Bay. We used to fish there and we also used to fish at saputit(fish dam) built across the rivers to trap the fish, from going up stream. We fished just like in the films that you made. I used to participate in fishing, when I was just a little boy. When I started to learn how to fish at saputit, it was always hard to get some kakivaak material, such as muskox horns. That is what the kakivaak were made of. So, instead of using the precious kakivaak that the adults were using, my father used to make me kakivaak out of old fox traps. He fashioned them just like the real thing. We had no muskox around Naujaat either, so it was hard to get the real stuff to make the kakivaak. There is still not much muskox, perhaps you see one in the long run.

      Up there, when we would fish at saputit in the mornings and in the evenings, there would be lots and lots of fish(Arctic Char). We would be spearing all the fish. I was a young boy at that time around 1952 or 53. When I was fishing inside the saputit, the water used to go up to my chest, so I was pretty small, fishing with my father and my brother in law. When my father and my brother-in-law were wading in the saputit, the water was just up to their knees. I guess, I was pretty small then. When I would spear a fish, I would pull the wooden handle of the leisters, towards my mother, who was on the dry land, then she would pull the fish on to the dry land. That was how I used to catch fish.

      I remember when we were fishing one evening. It was so much fun and it was so wonderful! I remember being hit by a big fish, right behind my knee or at the back of my knee. That hurt really, really bad. When the fishing was finished that evening, my mother and I decided to look at my leg, I had a really big bruse(sp). Ouch!! It was painful! The reason for this was that the fish were swimming very fast all over, inside the saputit.

      I also remember another story. It was a beautiful day and when we looked at the saputit from our tent, the fish were almost jumping up above the water. There were so much fish! I remember it was a beautiful day, sunny and hot. As a rule, my mother woke me up very early, so that we could all go fishing. When everyone else had left to the saputit to fish, I stayed behind. I was thinking that I didn’t wanted to leave the nice warm bed inside the tent, after all, I was a young child. I was going to go along with everyone but I decided not to go, as I really wanted to stay in bed. The bed was too cozy to leave!

      After the fishing was done, everyone had came back to the tent. My mother was extremely angry with me. She was trying to teach me how to fish at saputit, and teach me how to fish. She then, spanked me quite a few times on my bum. That hurt very much. Every since then, I learned my lesson and tried to be obedient as I did not wanted to be spanked again. We Inuit, when we were spanked once, we would learn a great deal of lesson. Spanking was one of the ways of disciplining someone, it allowed us Inuit to be listenful, that was how it used to be.

      The other thing was when the days would now begin to get dark in the evenings, and you could see the stars in the darken sky, and it was now obvious that the fish had stopped swimming upsteam. Now then, the little ducklings were swimming, with their mothers the sea water. My father would have an age-old knowledge, that they are now swimming in the sea, it was time to move inland to search for caribou. At this point, the caribou fur or hair was just right for making clothes, and there is now lots of tunnuq(fat) on the caribou. We would then practice our traditional methods of hunting caribou through “tagjarniq”, “nunarpangniq” in your Amitturmiut dialect, “moving inland”. We would do this on foot and walked many miles in search of caribou for survival of our family, dogs and for our clothing and winter supply of food. As a child, this walking on the land was very boring. Adults would be carrying heavy loads on their backs of our belongingss, such as tents, beddings, etc. The husky dogs on the other hand, would be carrying our other supplies as well on their backs, such as tents, kettles, food we had to survive on. When I would get tired, “kaka” me, by putting me on his back, and carry me, along with all the load that he was carrying on his back. When I was no longer tired, I would again start running back and forth, in front of family.

      Up where we used to live in Nattiligaarjuk(Committee Bay), we lived all of the seasons. At one point, when we were inland, walking on this big sandy area, that extended many miles. Well, as I was walking and running ahead of the others, I noticed a little black spot ahead of me on this sandy surface. I ran towards it and when I got to it, it was one side of muskox horn. It was so old that it had lichen on it. It means, it was there for quite a while. I grabbed it and then here I ran back as fast as I could towards my father, mothers and other members of my family, to show off my find. I gave it to my father. My father was ever so thankful for me, for finding such a treasure, now, he could make a kakivak out of it. At his spare time, when the days were not good for hunting, he would patiently make a kakivak(fish liester) out of it.

      During this particular period, which was in the fall time, my mother would sew all our caribou clothing, preparing them for winter use. On the other hand, men did cache the meat and fat for the winter supply. I truly love to eat the tunnuq(fat) and marrow. It’s amazing, how much I love to eat the caribou fat and marrow. I used to truly enjoy eating the patiq(the marrow). One time, my mother made me eat lots of patiq. I ate so much of it that, I got sick and had enough of it. Again, she was teaching me a lesson, not to eat too much of it. Since that experience, I don’t like to eat as much patiq as I used to, but still I like them, including the tunnuq. I also enjoy eating “kiksautit” and “iluit”, the caribou guts. These are the most delicious parts of the caribou. I also used to enjoy eating the eyes and ears of the caribou. These were the kinds of things I used to crave for, when I was a little boy. These were the delicacies for the little boys, like myself, when I was a little boy. To this day, whenever I go out caribou hunting on the land, I still eat the ears and eyes of the caribou. To me, that taste of a good delicacy is still there. My thought sometimes instantly returns to Inuit culture and traditions. This is how, I grew up in and around Naujaat.

      In the winter time, I remember my father and others used to hunt seals very traditionally through the “agluit” “seal breathing holes”. They used very traditional hunting methods in those days, using only a downed hair of a bird, as an indicator when the seal would be coming to breathe through it’s seal hole. They also used a small thin piece of metal, which was lowered to the seal hole, to know when the seal would be breathing and then, it was time to harpoon it. They could not see the seal breathing, as all the seal holes were covered with snow during this period of time, which was normally in the month of March, when the days were getting longer. As a young man, I learned the techniques and I hunted using these thousands of year old methods. That was part of my life. In 1961, when my father decided against me going back to a residential school in Chesterfield Inlet, this period of my time was a really awesome period for learning about my own culture. Hunting with “qiviutaq”s birds downs and savgutaujaqs(thin metal) indicator of when the seal was coming up to breathe, these are one of the many things, I learned from my father about my culture. I learned a great deal from my parents, sometimes learning about Inuit myths and legends, listening to them telling stories about these was one of the most pleasant past times.

      I used to ask my father to tell Inuit legends. Sometimes, he would tell a story about Kiviu, Inuit legend, who journeyed through many places. He would tell a story about Sakaliktuarjuk, a poor hunter who fooled every one in the village, that he was actually a good hunter. He would tell a story about Akturraarnaat, an evil mother, whose son was blind. My mother would tell a story about a sister and brother, who became thunder and lightening. These are the things I grew up with, as a young child. I learned about traditional pisiit(songs). My mother, father, my sister and my brother-in-law were very good sings, so I used to listen to them singing, traditional songs. I grew up to become an adult, knowing some knowledge about traditional songs of the Inuit and know how to sing some songs, to this day. I also have some knowledge about shamans. I used to watch my brother-in-law, practicing his healing of the sick. He was a shaman. My brother-in-law used his powers to heal the sick, using his angakkuuni(being shaman) techniques. My father, on the other hand, used to say, that he was not a shaman. Later on, I learned, people used to talk about him, that he was also an angakkuq. He was an extremely good hunter. He used to say, “out there” there must be something that we could see in terms of animals such as caribou. He would repeat this often, to the point where, it was repeated too often. He then, used to tell a story about spirits of angakkuit(shamans).

      He used to tell stories about some Inuit who had birds for spirits. Some other people had other spirits, such as wolves, and Nanurluk(a polar bear spirit). Others used to have human beings as spirits. Sometimes, they used their parents, normally deceased as their spirits, such as mothers or fathers or other relatives. My father used to tell us a story about having a ptarmigan for spirit, and how unpleasant this was, when flying. He said, this is because, they not only fly very fast but flew all over the place. It seemed like, you can hit a hill or something. He said, he used to hear this from other people. He said, other hand, having an ukpigjuaq(an owl) for a spirit, they are very easy to fly with. He said, they would fly high up in the sky and can look both ways. And they could see everything and anything down on the ground. I used to think later on that maybe he was talking about himself. Maybe, he used to fly, but we just didn’t see him fly. This was probably how, he used to know where these animals are, that are “out there”. When he finally goes over to the land, that he was talking about repeated, sure enough, there was caribou. He was like that. I grew up learning by observing all the things about Inuit cultre.

      In the summer time, as children, we used to go down to the beach when the tide was low, looking for Kanajuit(sea scorpions or scanvenger fish with large mouth). Sometimes, we used the go down, when pieces of broken ice were on the beach. We could start to hear the “qallupilluit”, they would be knocking again the ice or the ground. Qallupilluit are spirits, and cannot really be seen by any human being, unless you have extra ordinary powers, such as shaman. My father said, they had feathers like ducks. When we were children, like my friend, the late Simon Aglak, we used to like to go down and look for kanajuit. We used to live on the east side of Naujaat, at Kuugaarjuk, quite a bit of distance from Naujaat. When the tide was low, Simon and I used to look for kanajuit. We used Inuit Traditional Knowledge, looking for these kanajuit. Sometimes, when we would be walking close to the ice, qallupilluq(single) would begin pounding against the ice. When that happens, my mother would yell and say, “you might be gotten by a qallupilluq, come up to the land here”. When you were going to sleep at nights, as long as there was ice around, you could hear the qallupilluit pounding against the ice.

      When we were looking for kanajuit, my mother also used to say, when you are out there, and if you see a “nipisa”(a round-shaped black fish with sticky pad protruding from throat with which it clings on to things, or sticks to your hand, like a scotch tape). My mother would say, the only way to take it off is with an ulu(a half-moon) woman’s knife. One time, when Simon Aglak and I were looking for kanajuit, I lifted the rock to see if there were Kanajuit, and all of a sudden, I saw this fish, I grabbed a hold of it, and it got stuck on the palm of my hand. My mother carefully, took it off with her ulu. That was how, I grew up as a child, with my parents in Naujaat.

      Ever since I can remember, I used to hear about other Inuit from Uqsuqtuuq(Gjoa Haven) Region, Qairnirmiut(the people of Baker Lake area), Talurruaq, my father used to live within those regions. I used to hear about our fellow-Inuit in those areas. I grew up as a true Inuk, living in an iglu in the winter time. While living in an iglu, it can be old at times, especially when there was no oil on the qulliq(Inuit oil lamp). When you live on the sea coast, you used seal fat to light your qulliq. But when you are on the land, or inland, you would have a small oil lamp, that you carried with you. Since there was no seals on the land, my mother would use tunnuq(caribou fat) to light the small qulliq. She used to light the qulliq when she was going to sew our clothes in the evenings. We also used to chew the caribou fat to make candles. We used them for lights in the evenings. This is how I grew up in the Aivilik Region of Nunavut. When I was growing up, I grew up with much happiness and with wonderful things happenings. That was my cycle of life.

      Zack Kunuk: What is it your Inuktitut name?

      Peter Irniq: Taqtu Irniq, those are my Inuktitut names. My mother used to tell a story of her dream, when they lived in Maluk&ittat/Naujaarjuat or Lyon Inlet. She said, she dream’t about this Irniq. That Irniq had relatives in Naujaat as well here in Amittuq. He lived in that area around 1940 or 47. In her dream, my mother said, this Irniq wanted to be named in me. She said, her dream was almost life-like or as though she was awake. We were not related at all. This is why, I was named after that Irniq. Taqtu on the other hand, belonged to a lady relative of ours in Naujaat. When I was born, she named me after that special lady named Taqtu. When I was born and getting older, I remember calling her, “Taqtuuqatiga” “my fellow Taqtu”. This was part of Inuit culture that we practiced. To this day, whenever I talk about her, I refer to her as “Taqtuuqatiga”. This is very important aspect of Inuit culture. I only have two Inuit names. On the other hand, when I was born in 1947 and baptized by a Roman Catholic priest, I was named Pierre. Inuit called the priest Kajualuk(because his big beared was brown) so Inuit called him Kajualuk, translated to “Big Brown”. When I was going to a residential school, I became to be called as Peter, by the Qablunaat(White people).

      Zack Kunuk: When you still a true Inummarik, I guess, you would never pronounce the names of the older people? You would have calling titles for them, “tur&urautiit?”

      Peter Irniq: Yes, particularly, the old, old people, people who were much older than us. They were the fellow-Elders of my parents, my father. We were taught from never to call them by name. Even, if we did not have calling titles for them, we were told not to call them by their names. We respected their Elderships and their ages. It was like honoring them. As children, we were told not to call the older people, those who were older than us, by names. Some we had calling titles for them, and even when they were not related to us for example, we would call them, “my avvakuluk” “my dear little same name”. “My uncle over there”. We had different calling titles for them. “My same-age or equal-age person”. When people were named after certain individuals, we naturally had calling for each other. We were taught to respect and honor. When an Elder came into our tent, and I was sitting down, I was to stand up immediately and allow the Elder to sit down. I was told, do this, without being told.

      Zack Kunuk: When was it that you were sent off to school?

      Peter Irniq: Some Naujaarmiut(people from Naujaat) were sent off to school around 1953, 54 and 55. In those days, they were being sent to school in Igluligaarjuk(Chesterfield Inlet). As for me, I knew I was never going to school. I knew this because, I grew up as a true Inummarik, and knew that I would live an adult life as a true Inuk, a hunter, fisher, and trapper. Ones that are older than I am, they started going to school around 1954-55-57 to Chesterfield Inlet. It was around that time. For me, going to school was something that I was not prepared for as we never lived in a community with other people. My father used to say that living in a community, all you get is welfare from the Qablunaat. He didn’t want to be like that. He always wanted to be close to animals for food and clothing. We lived in Naujaat, I think, only two times, once in 1956 and another time in 1957. At that time, my fellow-youth, were being sent off to a residential school. As for me personally, we living in Tinujjivik(a favorite fishing spot of the Inuit in the spring time, when the fish were swimming down stream). We living there in the summer time and it was in the month of August. It was a time of year when the days were really beautiful, sunny and hot. Tinujjivik is not visible from Naujaat, but if you live in Naujaat, you could see in the distance, the outpost of Tinujjivik. It is around 13 miles west of Naujaat. Tinujjivik is a place for fishing. In the spring time, people would build saputit and when the tide is low, the Arctic Char would be trapped inside the saputit, and that was how we used to fish at Tinujjivik. We would move there in the spring time and moved a short distance to the east, where there are more seals in the area.

      Well, that summer of 1958, we could see a boat coming, with an engine. We could see it very clearly, as it was a very beautiful day. As our custom goes, my mother started to make tea by burning heathers, as this was a summer time. We only used heather and other moss to boil tea in those days. It was such a wonderful feeling that we are having some visitors, so she decided to make tea to welcome the visitors. Then they beached the boat. As they beached, we walked down to the beach to greet the visitors, and all of us, walked down behind my father. But that father, a priest, the late Father Dedier, came off the boat, first. He came off the boat, and said to my father, “Peter Irniq is going to school in Igluligaarjuk so we came to pick him up”. He didn’t even greet my father by shaking hands! I have never seen my father panicked but at that point, he was panicky. So he ordered me by saying, “they came to get you, go put on some nicer clothes”. My mother and I quickly went back to our tent and she made me put on niururiak, a seal skin boots, with the fur outside. I got all dressed up in my best, and off we went to Naujaat. The visitors didn’t have tea. As Inuit, they would have stopped to have tea, if they were regular visitors, then leave after they had tea. I don’t have any idea why this happened the way it did. I wondered, if the priest had told them earlier that, before anything happens, we should leave immediately. I don’t know. When we were traveling towards Naujaat, my goodness, it was lonely. It was the loneliest time of my life! It was too awesome!

      Zack Kunuk: You then, left your parents?

      Peter Irniq: “Yes!”

      It comes back instantly! My parents, my sister and brother-in-law, and my little brother, who died in later years, my niece, I watched them, as we are traveling farther and farther away from them. They were all standing by the shore, seeing me off, until I was no longer visible by eye. Wow! Perhaps, it’s that particular incident, when I was suddenly taken away, it’s been long time ago, since 1958, to me, it comes back quite suddenly, to the time I was a child. That very part, it is very difficult to become adult with. You stayed a child forever! Even though, I am a old person now, but sometimes, you have to returned to it, or re-visit it, instantly. And so, we were on our way to Naujaat.

      Zack Kunuk: How old were you at that time?

      Peter Irniq: Eleven. Yes, I was 11 years old, when I was taken away. So, we were traveling towards Naujaat. I watched my parents, as they were no longer visible by eye sight. They were still standing on the beach. They were also watching until we were no longer visible in the horizon. When we finally got to Naujaat, I was made to go to Angutinguaq family. My father and Angutinguaq were cousins. So I was to stay with this family, according to the wishes of the Roman Catholic Church. They were the adoptive parents of Jack Anawak. We had been here for some days, I guess my parents would watch from where they were, to see if the plane had come and coming to land in the water in Naujaat. Even though, Naujaat was some distance away, they could see airplanes from where they were. Since, they did not see any planes landing in Naujaat, a few days later, my father and my brother-in-law, came over by canoe with an outboard motor. When they arrived, it was so wonderful! Since they arrived, I became relaxed, knowing that I now have a foundation here in Naujaat.

      At that point, Angutinguaq, who I called Haluuruluk. Since they were in the south in 1925, spokes some English, I was to call him, my Haluuruluk(my darn Hello). Now that my father and my brother-in-law here, I had a foundation and practically no more worries and stress. At that point, Father Dedier had said, the plane would be here to pick us up, after three or four days, to bring us to Igluligaarjuk. He said, we were free to do whatever we wanted to do. Now that we are free to do whatever we wanted to do, and there was lots of broken ice in Naujaat at this point. My Haluuruluk had a boat called Uvajuk, it was very tippy so it was called that name. Using Uvajuk, we would go down to the sea, in between the ice, to see if there might have been bearded seals or walruses. We were doing this, while we were waiting for a plane. Once we were out there, they got me to steer the boat, while my father, Haluuruluk and my brother-in-law were on the look out for the animals, maybe polar bears. We waited may be about four days, a single engine plane came to pick us up. And so, we board the plane, and we were now on our way to Igluligaarjuk. It was my first time in an airplane. I remember my father having a discussion with another Inuksuk, when I was much younger child. This man was on an airplane previously. My father had asked him, when the plane was taking off, do you watch the ground? We used to get very few planes in Naujaat in those days. So, this man was telling about an airplane ride he had. He said, when they were taking off, and he was looking down on the ground, he could see that as they were going so fast, he could see stripes of blue, green or red or yellow. Remembering that story, I was looking down on the water as we were taking off. As you know it was my first time on an airplane. I kept on a lookout for green, red or yellow stripes. There was nothing. It was actually a slow airplane. Perhaps, he was exaduating(sp), to make the story more interesting. And when we were going back home, we were taking off from the snow, it certainly was not like that, there were no beautiful stripes. There were about 10 or 12 of us, who were brought from Naujaat to Igluligaarjuk. We traveled to Chesterfield Inlet for about two-and-a-half hours.

      Zach: With a single engine airplane?

      Peter Irniq: Yes, with a single engine airplane. This airplane belonged to the RCMP, the one they used to bring us over. On the side of the airplane was a yellow stripe, with a dark blue paint. The tail of the plane had a yellow paint as well.

      Zach Kunuk: When you are getting close to Igluligaarjuk and the time you were landing to Chesterfield Inlet, can you tell us about that?

      Peter Irniq: I remember this very well! I don’t forget things at all, so I remember it very well. I am an Inuk. I grew up as a real Inuk, at that time. My mother and father, always used to tell me to be looking or observing…always. If you see something, then you will be able to tell me. Look for animals. I used to look around for anything, at that time. When we left Naujaat, it was a beautiful day. We arrived to Igluligaarjuk, it was even more beautiful. Hot! There were some clouds. There were beautiful clouds, with the sun shining. When we got closer, the sea water didn’t seem to be as beautiful. But the land, was beautiful, much like Naujaat environment. The stone formations were beautifully bright! I could see all those each time I look down below me, from an airplane. They very much resembled, Naujaat rock formations. Naujaat has those. When we were getting closer to landing, the land and sea were both beautifully pleasant. That time, we landed at Tasiraaluk(a small big pond). Tasiraaluk belonged to Iguligaarjuk, it was situation just around the houses. We landed there at Tasiraaluk, a fairly big pond. The airplanes landed so it was quite a large pond. The Roman Catholic Church used it for water supply. We beached on a beautiful rocky beach with the plane. When we beached, we all got off. I saw some Inuit there but then, I saw the Sisters, the Grey Nuns, for the first time in my life. They wore long dresses, and their hoods had little “furs”, but with lots of little holes, just like window screens. Some of the nuns were extremely beautiful! When I first started seeing Qablunaat, they were always beautiful. To see the Grey Nuns, they were even more beautiful than the Qablunaat, that I had seen previously, which weren’t many. I started to see the Qablunaat there, some belonged to the Department of Transport and others were priests. I used to think, I wonder if White People had ugly people. They all seemed to beautiful and handsome. The Grey Nuns that I noticed so much being different than most people, were to be our care takers, supervisors. They came to meet us. So, I was standing there, as I didn’t know where to go, nor have any place to go. My fellow Naujaarmiut were there, Paul Maniittuq, John Ninngak Mike Kusugaq, and Katherine and the late Francios Nanuraq. There was also Nick Amautinnuaq and Jose Kusugaq, who we knew only as Amaujaq in Naujaat. When our names were changed by the Government of the Northwest Territories, he became Jose Kusugaq. He was along with us. There was also Agatha from Naujaat. There were others, Maria, Theresie, now Theresie Tungilik. She has his father’s name today. Those are the ones who came here to Igluligaarjuk. There was this little Qablunaaq, he was slightly bigger than I am. As I was 11 years old, I was not that tall. I maybe, was about this height. As he was standing next to me, and kept looking at me and then asked me: “What is your name?” with a French accent. I understood what he said, as the year before in 1957, we were taught some English by the Roman Catholic priest, perhaps for a week or so. We were taught in English about things that were inside the Roman Catholic Mission in Naujaat. “Box” “Seal” “House” so we learned a little bit in English, then. “Fish” I used to tell my father about what we had learned. He used to recognize the words that I told him about. The four of them, including my Haluuruluk Angutinguaq, Tapatai and Savikataaq were in the land of the Qablunaat in 1925. They were in Newfoundland, Halifax and in Montreal. When they returned, they learned some English and were able to speak some English. So what I was learning, he would recognize them once I tell him about them. We were taught by Iksirajuakuluulaurtuq(Formerly Father Franzen), and Father Dedier. So, when he asked, “what is your name”, I understood him. As I answered him, I was extremely timid and said, Peter. Also, I was feeling very strange to see the Inuit of Igluligaarjuk. Everything was too awesome for me!

      From there, we were led by a Sister to the hostel. I walked along with my good friend Paul Maniittuq. Both of us walked in behind a Sister, as we were told to follow her. We were apparently going to the big house, the Turquetil Hall. It was a huge building, green in color. I turned to one side and noticed another big building. These buildings looked really big. I also noticed the Church Rectory, it was beautifully built. When I looked to the west, there was a Statue of Virgin Mary, surround by rocks, it was beautiful. From there, we saw another large building, two-storey, this was a hospital as well as being a home for the Nuns. This one was not to be our home, at that point. The one, we were going to was a two-storey hostel, it was to be our home for entire winter or during all the time, that we were going to be in Igluligaarjuk. We called it Iglurjuaraaluk – a real big hosue. When we got there, we were told to take our clothes off. We were to have a bath. We were deliced. We got our haircuts. We got our haircuts with those old fashioned manual hair cutters. I had a very short hair. In fact, all of us young boys had very short hair at that point. I also noticed that day that the young girls also got a hair cut, by cutting their hair, right across their forehead. They looked so different. It was the firs time I ever saw a bath tub, as we didn’t have bath tubs in Naujaat. It was the first time I ever saw and worn shoes. I put a short sleeve shirt for the first time. That was the first time, I ever put on a foreign clothing like that. Wow, it was so awesome! There were lots of boys and girls, Iglulingmiut, Qamanittuarmiut(Baker Lake) kids, Arviarmiut(Arviat kids), there were many of them. That day was something to remember, that very day in Igluligaarjuk.

      Then when the night time came, we were told to go into our large, huge bedroom. There were many beds. I was given my bed, complete with sleepers or pjamas. I didn’t know a darn thing about these items, as we did not use them in Naujaat. As an Inuk, I slept completely naked, at home. Just before, we went to bed, we were told “to kneel down” and pray. I guess, this was the beginning of praying. We prayed a lot. That evening was just the beginning of our praying. When we woke up the next morning, we prayed firs thing, then just before our breakfast, when we got to the school, we prayed first thing, we used to go to school at 9 in the morning. Right after we said the Lord’s Prayer, “our father who art in heaven…” then we sang, what is apparently a “Oh Canada” song, Canadian National Athem. I didn’t know what I was singing about but just trying to follow along and copied everybody. I was completely unaware of what these songs mean’t.

      We had our teacher, who was a Grey Nun. After that first morning of schooling, we had to pray again, just before we left for lunch. When we got into the dining room of our hostel, we prayed. Just before we left for school, we prayed again. When we got to the afternoon school, we prayed again and then sang, God Save the Queen. We stayed in school during the afternoon for about two-and-a-half hours. Then when the English classes were finished, a Roman Catholic priest came over to teach us catechasm. This activity was also very noticeable to myself, especially, during the early stages of staying there. I was happy with this exercise, as we were able to speak our own Inuktitut language. Whereas at the school, we were told to speak only English. We were completely forbidden to speak our own Inuktitut language.

      At that time, Father Farard used to teach us catechasm. I had some idea about the Bible and the prayer, mostly I’ve learned this from my mother. This was prior to going to Igluligaarjuk. Prayer books were used quite a lot in those days, I even have one at home, one of the first prayer books of the Church. The top page has a drawing of a church, couple of iglus and Inuit. I have the old prayer book. When that priest was teaching us about the bible, I was the most knowledgeable one about it. I knew so much that I won a prize from Father Fafard. This was shortly after, we’ve been there for a short time. For my Prayer Book knowledge, he gave me a green apple for a prize. I didn’t know it was an apple. When you go outside, you can eat it, he said. So, when we got outside, I decided to take a bite out of this apple: Oh, what a horrible taste!! I found the apple so horrible tasting, so I gave it to Marius Qajuuttaq, who was walking with me up to the Turquetil Hall. I told him, I just hated the taste of it so I said, you can have it. A year ago, he has already been to that school, so he like it and found it very delicious! As for me, I ate a lot of Inuit food, such as dried meat, so I totally found dried fish very delicious. So, I gave that apple to Marius. I wonder, if he sometimes thinks about it today.

      Zack: Would you like some break?

      Peter Irniq: Yes, let’s

      Filmmaker: Zacharias Kunuk

      Filmmaker Contact:

       

      isuma@isuma.ca

      Year of Production: 2008

      Country: Canada

      Region: Nunavut

      Read more

      uploaded date: 03-11-2011

    • 1h 11m 6s

      Joe Ataguttaaluk Testimony

      uploaded by: Zacharias Kunuk

      channel: Testimony I Residential Schools

      Click on 'Read More' for English Translation of Joe Ataguttaaluk Testimony by Peter Irniq, May 2009

      Interview with Joe Ataguttaluk

      Iglulik, Nunavut

      May 2008

      Joe Atagutaaluk:  I remember this one incident, when we were at a lake, this guy was running along and wanted to drink water with us from the lake.  He came in between us, and fell right through the ice.  He had a flashlight, and the flashlight fell to the bottom.  This guy, he started to swim away from us but we yelled him to turn around and swim towards us.  You could see the flight light in the bottom for a while, that was funny.

      Peter Irniq:  Was it getting dark?

      Joe Atagutaaluk:  He thought, we had made holes on the ice and drinking water but we were just along the edge.  It was a bit far to that lake as well.  We had our skates too, so the two guys were skating as fast as they could, and the guy was really running in between. 

      Peter Irniq:  Do you remember when Rene Otak broke his collar bone?

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Rene, yes.

      Peter Irniq:  He broke his collar bone, when we were playing foot ball.

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  We used to do all kinds of things..

      Peter Irniq:  We had some happy times in Chesterfield Inlet. 

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, absolutely!  There were some happy moments..at least to me.  There were quite a few happy moments. 

      Peter Irniq:  Do you remember all the happy times and what were you happy about?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Sort of. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Can you talk about some of them?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  One of the things that I was very happy about what when we would go out trapping foxes.  Those of us who were bigger.  Every Saturday, we would go out and check our traps, by walking.  We would wait the entire week to visit our traps.  When we go to check on them, we would catch a fox on a trap.  At that time, when it became November 15, we would have an anxious time.  We would down to the beach in front us at the hostel, we would go and look for food garbage, that they used to throw out there.  At one time, a Sister was trying to keep us from going to sleep until 12 midnight and when midnight came along, couple of us, would go down to the beach in the dark, and then set traps, with a hope of catching a fox.  When they went to check them later on, they had a fox.  And then, us, me and Jack(Anawak), Jack was my really good friend.  Behind the community, there was a little shack, we noticed a small fox went under the house.  We set up the trap and went out further for sometime.  When we came back, we noticed we had a fox already.  And then, we had another fox where we set up another trap.  My goodness, we truly wanted to get foxes.  That time during the year, it was fun, as a man.  We noticed  four men, side by side.  Each had foxes in between them, in fact, they had lots of foxes, at that time!  At that time, we were being taught how to skin a fox.  Those made it sort of fun, as they were sort of preparing us, for eventually becoming true Inuit. 

       

      Sometimes, it was not happy at the hostel.  Our house, it didn’t bother me that much, even though, it does bother me at times.  Over there, there were some unhappy situatins.  When I got there for the first time, there were children who were eight years old.  When I look at my children today and they are eight years old, they are still pretty small.  That was how old I was when we left to go to school. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  You were still a little child?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Apparently, yes!  I still remember most.  When we got there for the first time, I had a favorite aunt.  She was my mother’s younger sister.  She also went over there.  Today, she is no longer alive.  I could not see her for three days, when I was first there.  When I did not see her for three days, I wanted to see her as I was remembering her.  Where do these women go, I was thinking to myself.  I must have been trying to becoming more clever, at this point.  When I first started to try and notice where they went, I see the women would go upstairs and we boys were down here.  When I would see them through a small window, they would go the stairs.  I wondered, if she was up there too?  So, I proceeded to go upstairs.  When I got upstairs, I was asked, what I was doing?  I said, I was up there to see my aunt.  I was met with absolutely no smile, by a Sister!  I was told, I am not supposed to be up there, they grabbed me and dragged me downstairs, back to boy’s dorm!  I was brought to our supervisor immediately.  Here, I was eight years old, I was put to bed right away.  One who didn’t understand any of the rules applied to us. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  There was no attempt to make you understand why and here you were, you wanted only to see your aunt?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  You only wanted to see your relative?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  It seemed we were not allowed to see our relatives immediately, upon arrival.  If it was your sister, you were cut off from seeing her.  Yes, over there, there were some very unhappy experiences.  Also, I remember being put to bed, I don’t know how many times, I was put into bed, even though, I thought, I was being pretty good, all the time, at this point.  I thought, I was pretty obedient, but then, I would be dragged to be put to bed.  At one point, we were outside and then went inside the hostel.  When we got in, we of course, were told to go in.  With the girls, we had to take turns to go in and out.  When the little girls were out, we boys, were instructed, not to go outside.  When we do go out, there was a special for the boys, to be at.  When they got the little girls to go in, then, they allowed us boys to go outside.  Soon after we had been outside, I was instructed to go inside.  I didn’t know why, I was told to go in.  When I got in, I was brought to the boy’s washroom, where we had several toilets.  And I noticed there was someone who put into the toilet, the entire toilet paper.  Someone flushed it and it got so full that it overflowed.  It was so full that it spilled all over the floor, and there were toilet paper all over the floor.  Then, they(Sisters) started to interrogate us little ones about it.  They knew, I did not do it.  As long as they pointed at me, then they said, it was me, who did it, there was no question about it. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Was there someone who told on you?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  It was a fellow-child.  When I was being pointed at, they said, it was me.  I tried to tell them, I didn’t do it as I knew, I didn’t do it.  I was blamed for it.  When they got to know it was not me, but it was already to late, to correct it, then it became me, who did it.  The Sisters made sure of that.  Then, they dragged me to go to bed. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  During the broad daylight?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  During the afternoon.  It was after, we had finished schooling in the afternoon.  The next day, I had to prepare a toilet paper like this.  See those little lines and blocks on the toilet paper?  The next day, they made me, prepare this toilet paper into three little pieces like this, on this toilet paper.  They made me to fix them up and set them up, on top of each other, for other people to use.  For a time, it was only me, who was doing that, but then, it became all of us doing this.  We would use them to blow your nose and to wipe your ass.  That entire exercise became a rule! 

       

      Peter Irniq:  And only because the toilet was overflowing?!

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, only because the toilet overflowed.  I was not responsible for it.

       

      Peter Irniq:  Did they find out, it was not you who did it?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I don’t think, they ever found out.  Also, at one time, some one broke a window.  I never know to this day, why I was blamed for these things, often.  One of my fellow-children, blamed me for it.  At home here at that time, I never knew anything about a window.  The last thing I would have thought of, is to break a window, let alone, not knowing, that a window would break.  They said, it was me, who broke the window.  Again, they put me to bed, in the day time.  I was of course, not sleepy at all!  We never got any orientation what-so-ever.  For one thing, we were not told about the windows being able to break easy.  When they thought, we did something, they put us to bed.  Then, I went to bed again.  We must have been thought of as foolish children.  As a child, I didn’t think, they were a big deal for us to be put in bed.  When I was younger, thinking back about the way, we were treated,  I used to think, “good, they have all died!”  Now, I don’t think that.  At that time, I used to think, since they did so many bad things to us, I used to think, they got what they deserve.  As a result, they will not be able to do anything like that to anyone else.  But, that was how things were done at that time. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Are those types of punishments, that were part of the rules?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, those were the ways of punishing us, instead of teaching us, they totally avoided teaching us or informing us the right way.  They would punish us, and wanted us to know, before hand, that these things were not the right way.  They expected us to know things, that we did not know.  They had an attitude that, you should know about these things, before hand, that they were wrong ways of doing things.  The minute we got to Chesterfield Inlet, they got us to become adults, immediately!  It looked like that.

       

      Peter Irniq:  As a young boy, when you lived near Iglulik or around Iglulik, and when you suddenly spilled the toilet bowl, would have been punished severely by your mother?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  No!  I know, I would not have been punished.  If you have an accident not on purpuse, people know.  He didn’t do this on purpose.  People knew, when you did things on purpose.  If I did something like that at home, I would not have been punished for it, either by my mother or my father.  About these things, they brought us up, totally differently, in Chesterfield Inlet.

       

      Peter Irniq:  They introduced you to a totally foreign culture, that was not part of Inuit culture?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  When I first went to Chesterfield Inlet, I did not at all know, English.  No wonder, and it’s not surprising that I never entered a classroom before.  As soon as I entered the classroom in Chesterfield Inlet, the teacher opened the window, and threw out my Inuit language, out the window, immediately!  My language in Inuktitut was then, left outside!  We were then taught to speak English!  They allowed us to do things, with such force or vigour!  Inside the classroom, you are not to speak Inuktitut!  If you speak Inuktitut, you will pay for the consequences!  If you speak it, you will be hit a with a large measuring tape, a yard stick, and hit on your hand. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  That was if you spoke in Inuktitut language?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes!  If you spoke in Inuktitut inside the classroom.

       

      Peter Irniq:  When you first left Iglulik, were you not able to speak in English, at all, as well?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes. Absolutely!

       

      Peter Irniq:  And you were eight years old?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  We always lived at a small outpost came.  We never lived in a community.  And the Qablunaat(White People), who were in Iglulik, did not go to outpost camps.  Those of us who lived in outpost camps, were all Inuit, and all spoke Inuktitut language.  Only in Inuktitut, since time immemorial. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Now that you are an adult, do you speak to your fellow-Inuit in Inuktitut, since long time ago?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I normally do.  But, when you go out to different places, and when people speak a different dialect, then you feel, maybe they won’t understand me, speaking my own dialect, then you sort of have to speak in English.  When you go into a different community, whose dialect is different, then you have to do this but here in our community, I try to speak Inuktitut all the time, to my fellow-community members. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  When we were in Chesterfield Inlet, at that time, one of the things that was really wonderful for us, was the movies, and we would go to the movies, every Friday night, it seemed.  You mentioned earlier that you had punishements, and knowing the fact that, going to see movies, were one of our favorite past times, as we enjoyed watching cowboy movies.  If we did do something, and if we didn’t listen for example, without knowing or not on purpose, we would have been told, “no picture show for you tonight on Friday”.  Do you remember this as well?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  Some were made to do this, and it was done to me as well.  I used to be  very envious of the children going to the movies, and again, my punishment was to go to bed, again.  I would be in bed, wide awake.  I was “bad” in their eyes, so they would stop me from going to the movies. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  It was really fun going to the movies.

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  It was wonderful but sometimes you think the other way as well.  Sometimes, when you didn’t feel like going to a movie, especially when someone said, what we are going to watch tonight is a scary movie, so you didn’t really wanted to go to a movie but, they let you go anyways and told be “part of it”.  You had to go along.  We had to follow all these, and we were not free to not to them. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  So, when we did things that we liked  doing, we would be punished for them, if they thought, we were doing things, against their will?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, the punishment that used to get, was very big for what we thought were for small things.  When you did things without knowing or what they appeared to be small things, you would get a severe punishment for it.  At one time, we walked to the land, going out to check our fox traps, then when we got home, we were cold, and it was not a wonder, it was cold outside.  We put all our boots into one spot, and you will obviously remember, Sister Girard.  She spoke French fluently, as a French woman.  She also spoke some Inuktitut.  She was also learning to speak English.  She started to speak to us in English and there were quite a few of us, sitting on the floor.  I started to imitate how she was speaking in English.  She came over to me when she found out, took me to dormitory and had got me to sit on the floor.  I was trying my best to apologise to her about what happened.  But, she just told me to sit on the floor.  When it was 12 o’clock, she came over, and told me to go for lunch.  I responded by saying, “you told me to sit down, I am going to remain sitting.” 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Our big house, the place where we slept, can you describe it?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  Where she had me sitting down, she got me to have lunch, then after lunch, she got me return to our dormitory.  She then, got me to sit on the floor again.  She got me to sit on the floor around 10:30 in the morning,  had a quick lunch, got me to sit again in the dormitory, finally at 3 p.m., when she said, it was time for my bath, she got me to stand up.  That was how it was, and it was a long period of time.  Later on, when I became an adult, I went to see where we used to sleep, it was one huge room.  It had beds, all lined up like this, and there were quite a few.  They may have been a row of six this way, and perhaps 24 rows this way.  There might have been about 40 beds, as there was may be 40 boys, that went to school.  The beds were all lined up very straight this way and that way, in one huge bedroom, the dormitory.  At each end of the dormitory, our supervisors had their individual rooms, where they slept. 

       

      At one time, I was curious about where they used to pee, especially since they had huge dresses, as Qablunaat.  When I got older and became an adult, and was free to do what I wanted to do, I went to see their bedrooms.  Apparently, they shared one washroom, between the two bedrooms, where they slept.  I had overcome my curiosity.  Also, some beds could be on top of each other for some.  Perhaps, you were there or had gone to where else, at that point.  These were particularly set aside for the big boys.  At one time, they had me sleeping on top bunk.  I fell off the bunk bed, at one point! 

       

      Peter Irniq:  I think, I was no longer there.

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  I think, there I was taught a pretty good schooling, there.  There was loud siren that they had, whether it was night or not.  And they were teaching us what to do, when that happened.  There was a door way from our dormitory, and then there were stairs from there.  We would wrap a blanket completely, and used to go outside, when there was a practice drill.  We did this at night, even though, we had been a sleep.  We would go down the steps and went outside, even though, it was cold outside.  No one froze.  I think, we were taught pretty good about this then. We were also taught pretty good, if there was an emergency, especially taught not to panic.  I don’t think, I learned very well, when I was a “trader” at the coop here, when the store was on fire, I became panicky.  It was extremely scary! 

       

      Peter Irniq:  If in fact, there was a fire at the hostel and there were about 70 or so, boys and girls, together.  Where do you think, they would have send us to?  Have you been told, where we would have gone to? 

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, for sure?  Not at all, we were told nothing, the only thing they taught us, was how to get out of the building, in case, there was a fire.  We kind of knew about this prior, as we were told that we would have fire drill training.  If there was a real fire, this is where, you are going to go to.  No one told us about this.  Perhaps, they would have send all of you to the school. 

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, perhaps.  Maybe to the hospital.  I am not sure, where they would have taken us to.  I know one thing for sure, they would not have taken us to Inuit homes, at that time.  The local  Inuit there, as our fellow-Inuit, we used to try and make friends with them, by visiting them.   It was fun to visit local Inuit, at that time.  But when our Supervisors found out that we were visiting, we would then again be told to go to bed, as part of the rules applied to us.  They would get the boys together and the girls together but separate from each other.  The boys were gathered and were then asked, as to “who have you visited?”  When the question was asked, all of the boy’s hands went up.  I did not put up my hand, as I did not participated visiting.  When there were only a few us, perhaps five of us, who did not visit the local Inuit.  All the others, who put up their hands, indicating that they had visited, were all put to bed, as punishment.  They apparently did the same thing to the girls.  Those who did not visit, came downstairs, they were not many, perhaps seven.  Those who indicated visiting, apparently were put to bed to punish them.  Those of us, who were “better” than the others, they got us together.  They got us to play bingo, and had placed various things on the table, for prizes.  Then, we were playing bingo, as though it was a real bingo game.  While participating at a bingo game, I suddenly remembered, that I visited certain people.  As soon as I remembered, the supervisors there seemed to know all about what happened.  I became very scared!  I wanted to tell them out loud that I had done this, while playing bingo at the same time.  I was actually quite struggling to tell.  I figured, the supervisors knew about this, wow, it was scary!  I wasn’t doing this on purpose.  If I had remembered earlier about my previous visit to the local Inuit, I would have been put to bed right away, along with the others.  Only when we got together, I remembered my visit, it became extremely scary.  If they found out about this, I would have been considered a lair.  Now at least, that’s in the past. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  When we were made to trap foxes at that time, how much money did you get for one fox, that you caught?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  What I remember about this was that one fox was worth $3, at that time. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  That was in 1958.

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  Around that time, 58, 59. One pelt was worth $3, so I got seven foxes, that entire year.  I got a lot of money, totally $21.  I was told that I had $21 and then was told, I could order things from the catalogue.  When she brought a catalogue in front of me, I was looking through it with anxiety, right through it.  And then, wow, I found a rifle, a 22 calibre.  There was no cartridge and only allowed to put one bullet, at a time. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Yes, you load, only one bullet at a time.

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, if you shoot, take out the empty bullet and then put another one in. It was that kind.  I bought a rifle.  It cost something like $14.19.  Wow!  Then, I was looking and found beautiful wrist watches.  They were very cheap.  Now, I bought those two for less than $21.  I then added several other things which I bought with the rest of the money.  That was how, I started to buy things.  The big thing was, I even bought a rifle.  I bought these things with the seven foxes that I got that year.  When you consider the 22 with no cartridge today, they cost a lot of money now.  It was fun, at that time. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Did you have money left over?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  No, we had to make sure, we spent them all.  As we had to spend all of it, I bought three things with the money.  Prior to that, my father sent to me $2 at that time. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  This must have been a lot of money.

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:   When I got the $2, it was huge money!  It was taken by our Supervisor right away.  After the school was over, I asked, if I could go to the store with the money.  So, we went to the store to the Hudson’s Bay Company.   You know these brown papers like this, I loaded up with things, with the money I bought it, it was right full.  It was full of things, that are really useful things.  I bought sweets with him, such as candies, chocolate bars and gums.  After I had spent a dollars, then I still had a dollar left over, to spend.  I saved it for future so that I could use it, sometime down the road.  At that time, things were very cheap.  Wow! 

       

      Peter Irniq:  When you entered the classroom for the first time, do you remember what it looked like inside?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  No really.  The thing that I remember most was when we were brought inside the classroom that, they opened the window, and then throw  out your Inuit language outside.  They closed the window, and then started to teach us in English. 

       

      Only when I got  a bit bigger, perhaps during the third year, or second year of schooling,  I wanted to go to the washroom.  The immediate answer was flat NO.  It’s not a wonder, I needed to pee.  The answer was flat no.  Then, it became completely hopeless.  Here I was trying to learn something in school, at the same time, I needed to pee so badly, knowing full well that my teacher did not allowed me to go to the washroom.  So finally, I was asked to help someone, perhaps it was Karlik or Komaksiutiksaq, who had requested some help to fill up a water tank with water.   They chose me to go.  When I got chosen to go, I went to the furnace room, and started to fill the water tank with water.  Then, over there was a doorway.  Here, I should just gone out and peed outside but didn’t.  But I guess, hearing the water running,  I peed in my pants, by accident, as I could no longer help it.  I tried to hold on to my pee but as soon as it started go, it went all the way.  Here, I could have just gone out and peed, as no one would have caught me.  I was scared.  When I peed, my pants got all went, no wonder.  It was  12 o’clock at this point, I left with the other students to go to the hostel to eat.  Here, I was all wet.  If the supervisors found out about this, I would have been beaten by them.  They could have done anything to me.  I just continued using my wet pants.  Only when Saturday came along, we used to change our clothing.  We wore our clothing for entire week but when Saturday came along, we would be allowed to have a bath, and only then, we would change our clothes.  My pants were wet at first, but as I was using them, for what looked like an entire week, they dried up.  I kept using them all the way, I must have gotten pretty stinky.  I was really scared of the supervisors.  If they knew, they would have done something to me. 

       

      I remember one other time about the other children.  The weather was some what like this outside, when snow was beginning to melt(in May).  These children were playing outside when the surface became wet and as a result they got all wet.  Well, I remember the Sisters ordered them inside, told them to take their pants down, and started whipping them, with the belts.  That is what they might have done to me, if they found out I was wet from peeing my pants. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Do you remember some students because they could not speak English and ask the teacher, “I would like to go to the washroom” that they ended up having an accident inside the classroom and peed their pants?  Have you ever notice some of those?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I actually did not notice anyone.  I think, that was sometimes obvious for both boys and girls as well.  It was extremely difficult to try to tell the teacher that you needed to go.  This was a hard part for us, as we did not speak fluent English, because we were real Inuit to begin with.  And when we needed to go to the washroom, they didn’t think, it was the major problem.  That was how, they treated us.  I just never got anything done to me, because I was hiding things very much. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Was there a teacher teaching Inuktitut inside the classroom?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Not right inside the classroom itself. But, just outside of the school, there was a workshop, so that gentleman from Kangir&iniq(Rankin Inelet) Pierre Karlik, used to teach us how to make toy sleigh, he taught us some Inuit cultural ways, even though, it was in a small way.  That was only at that place and when you got inside the actual classroom, then you have nothing in Inuktitut, what-so-ever. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Did you learn to make fish net there?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, at home, where we were.  They were fun to do!  I used to finish, two spools at a time.  We used to stand next to each other making nets, which was fun part.  And the other fun part was when we were trying to see who could finish first.  So, we used to have a competition, as to who, could finish the net first.  I can and know how to make fish nets, but I buy the ones that are already made, ready for use, from the store.  The first one I made over there, I gave it to my grandfather.  I made three nets in three years.  The first two I made I gave them to my grandfather and his brother.  The third one I made, I gave it to my father.  So we made fish nets.  The floats were not included from the store, so we made floats out of ordinary wood.  We made them very good looking.  We learned to make things like that, at that time.  They really were wonderful. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  What about the priests, did you have catechisms?  Did they come around to teach as well?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, they came and to preach about religion.  They taught us, inside our classrooms. When they came to our home, they did not talk about it. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  When we were going to school in Chesterfield Inlet, we had all kinds of rules, in which, many of those have quite a lot of impact on all of us, in every which way.  Many Survivors talked a great deal about how, we used to be abused, as a result, we have to have a healing for life, and it is a real healing for us.  Do you have something to tell us about this?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I cannot  really talk about it, in depth.  I cannot talk about it to it’s end.  I don’t think, I can even talk about it in every detail.  I will probably jump from issue to issue.  Well, when I first got there, I was taught about praying, believing.    I can speak about praying and it’s something that is good.  We would go to pray at 6:30 in the morning, started the church service at 7 a.m.,  Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.  On Sundays, at 6:30, then later in the morning, at 10:30. And after lunch at 3 p.m., then 7 in the evening.  Four times a day.  Then, on Monday, during the week, we would say the rosary, every day, right after school, at our hostel, for entire year.  That first year, I remember it very well.  But, the next year, it was not as much as it was during the previous year.  But, I like it.  To this day, I am not angry about the church services or prayers we had.  Whenever I can go to church, I go to church, at every opportunity.  But the thing is, because of who the priests and Angilican are today.  It is not what they were.  This is why, I can go to church today.  In Chesterfield Inlet, there was that darn person, who tried to make friends with the children, in (a sexual way).  If that person is here and working here today, I would not be going to church whats-so-ever!  And to think of this, it is not what these priests were then, I am able to go to church today.  And I struggle to try and make sure, that these church people we have today, are not those of what we had at that time, as a result, I am able to go to church today.  I am not praying to those people, I think they are sent to as messengers to preach about believing.  But, when those others were doing things that they were doing to us, it makes you very angry.  Looking back, it makes you extremely angry.  I never had any real close friends, I think, because I was put to bed too many times.  My fellow-children used to turn on me.  My fellow children used to point fingers at me.  It makes you think, that was the only kind of friend I had and accepted it.  Looking back about it, it angers me very fast.  Having talked about it somewhat, I am now able to leave it behind, more so than before.  Now that I can leave it behind me, I can now refrain from thinking about it.  It taught me a great deal of lesson and I have seen many people, who done this sort of thing here in our community.  I have never wanted to pass on this issue to our children.  Looking back to what happened to us in the past over there, it sometimes, makes me think that, “good  now that these people are gone, those who have done wrong to us”.  It is not a wonder, that these people did things that they were not supposed to do. 

       

      Why is it, that Catholic priests are not supposed ?  How come the Grey Nuns cannot have husbands?  We are all made to want, all of us.  I believe that this topic should be considered seriously by the Pope.  That is precisely what I think about.  This business of wanting, will always be around.

       

      I also hear of Anglicans who went to schools as well.  Those of us who were brought up as Roman Catholics, we were the ones, who attended that school over in Chesterfield Inlet.  And also, others who went to other schools, they were sexually abused.  It’s exactly the same way.  I wonder why, this is such so strong.  I don’t want to let go of my beliefs.  As a result, as long as I can go to church, I will.  But, whatever I learned in Chesterfield Inlet, in terms of praying and in terms of the faith, I will use it.  I know that I did not get them from the priests and Christian brothers, at that time.  We were taught about religion but this faith is much bigger.  This is why, I am able to go to church.  I think, sometimes we do not consider those, who were hurt.  This is how, I can say it. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Those things, for example, if you don’t want to answer my question, it’s okay but if you want to answer it, that is okay.  Those who were sexually abused at that time, the children, or as very small children, if we were at home, we would not have been abused like that, as it is not in the culture of the Inuit, those who were sexually abused, they are healing today, forever or lifetime.  They want to heal since then, from there.  What would you say to them, your fellow-Inuit?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Well, I cannot say it.  But, I am aware of a need to feel.  A need for feeling  of needing to  help a child, because, he/she is a  child.  Sexually abusing a child, is not helping the little child.  A little child doesn’t seem to feel as a child but when they start to grow, and become aware of things, they can get angry.  He will have a reason to be angry.  I think, we need to think further ahead.  Ever since then, what happened to us, has been following us, this is how I see it.  As we grew up, we kept holding on to what happened to us over there, and in the end, we are very angry about it.  As for me, I have been able to heal about what happened as I have been able to get it out in to public, not particularly to yourself but it has healed me much more.  I have been able to heal great deal more from it.  I am able to think more about the fact that, “let’s not do these things to little children.”   Children do not think about these things.  When they become older, they can think for themselves.  Sometimes, they are made to take some things, they are going to be angry about later on. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  When they were sexually abused as little children, as a result, their childhood was taken away from them?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes, that is right.  When they sent me to Chesterfield Inlet to school, I think, it was their attitude that I should be knowledgeable like an adult, at that instant.  This is probably how, we were treated during the time, we were away and for those of us, who were sent away.  Even some of those children, who were not sent out, they were also abused by some teachers.  They forget to notice the fact that they are children!  It’s nice that we have children, they have the freedom to do whatever they want to do, if they want to play in the puddle of water, that’s okay.  The thing is, when you did that in Chesterfield Inlet, then guaranteed, you were going to be whipped.  We were taught to do adult things right away.  Now, you do things the way, adults do, that was how we were treated. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Those who were supposed to be our “mothers” and “fathers”, they didn’t have on their hands, any skills, to do with parenting?  Is that right?  It seems like, they did not have any love?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Perhaps yes.  But, maybe because, our culture was too different to their culture.  We even had a Grey Nuns, a Sister, who was an Inuk.  She was just an ordinary employee, so she could defended us but she was not given any powers and had no strength.  She knew the Inuit ways, but she had rules to follow, so she could not do too much.  Those who had authority, had absolutely no idea about Inuit culture, that was the problem.  It was like them saying, “leave your Inuit culture behind.”  Expect instead to becoming a Qablunaat, a Whiteman.  This was what I think, was happening right away, right from the start. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  When they took us to go to school in Chesterfield Inlet, was it their policy to make us Qablunaat(White People)? 

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  It seems pretty much that way.  I could perhaps say, I do not target the people of Chesterfield Inlet, at all.  I want them to be my friends.  I want to have them as my good neighbors.  But the ones, who were our Supervisors, authorities, they seem to wanted us to become White People.  In regards to the White Man’s culture, learn it well, that was why, we had to follow what his culture was.  Today, you can go sleep and woke up at 12, these children are able to do it, they can do it.  If they totally understand Inuit culture, they can use it.  I think, they wanted us to be assimilated to becoming Qablunaat(White People).    We had to use forks to eat.  When I first using forks to eat, I could not do it at all in the beginning.  It’s not a wonder, when I lived in my hometown, I never, did really see any of these these eating utensils, prior to going to Chesterfield Inlet.  Today, we can use them properly.  My children are taking them at my own home.  At that time, we just did not know how to use them.  We used to eat frozen cow beef,  as there was absolutely no caribou.  We had maktaaq.  We had frozen Arctic Char.  We had fish, whose guts were still in the fish.  When we were going to have boiled fish, they would cut up the fish into chunks, and then, they would have their guts attached to them, that we are now going to eat boiled!  We were made to try and drink the fish broth!  Like, they had guts in them!  Then, we had to eat them.  Prior, that was not how our people did.  They could eat some of the guts but,  they used to and knew how to separate the guts, between what was good to eat and not good to eat.   But, we at the hostel had to follow their rules and eat them, the way they served them, and we had to eat them ..for sure! 

       

      Peter Irniq:  At our own home, we would not have eat what we ate at the hostel?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Yes.  Yes, that was the case.  Here is one, I used to think of quite often.  Whenever we would be leaving for Chesterfield Inlet, my mother used to make me brand new seal skin boots,  that were water proof, but when we got to the Hostel, they were taken away and they gave us new, shoes.  When we got back home to Iglulik, they didn’t appear, they didn’t come back home with us.  My mother used to ask, what ever happened to your seal skin boots?  The only answer I used to give her was, “I don’t know”.  She thought, we would be using them while we were over there.  The thing was, when we left from here, we used them, that was the last time we saw them.  We never knew anything about what happened to them, even though, our mothers worked really hard to make them well, chewing and softening the soles, sewing the entire boots, we used them once and after that, that was it, we never saw them again.  What happened to them?  They just left them to rott!  Should we try to do something about that?  I don’t know.  I think, there is something out there, that we can do something.  Have you had that experience?

       

      Peter Irniq:  My experience was exactly the same as yours.  When I got home, I check my bag, there was no kamiik(no boots). 

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Here they were, our mothers worked really, really hard to sew those boots.  They sewed them really well, to make them look nice.  How do we retrieve those boots.  I sometimes think of what to do about this. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Today, if we could have another meeting, as long as we are alive.   We now meet about the things that happened to us, and we met in Chesterield Inlet, in 1993, July 5 to 9.  We talk about bad things, I mean, not bad things but things that touched us personally, things that had impact on us, and we talked about those issues for five days.  The things that we talked about, things that we worked so hard about, did they help our fellow-Inuit?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  To me, yes.  When we were preparing to go there, I really did not wanted to go, because I wasn’t sure exactly what I was going to get into.  I was think of wonderful times or maybe I wasn’t going to make other people happy but when we got there, we let out, what was bothering us for a long time.  That part had a great deal of help to me.  Perhaps, my friends had felt the same way as me.  Suppose we have another gathering, I think, we could bring out issues that are much more positive this time around.  Over there, we talked a lot about negative impacts on each one of us. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  If we were to have another reunion and talk about our successes at the Residential School in Chesterfield Inlet.  Would this be helpful?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  I would like it very much to talk about the big help this educational facility has had to us who went to Chesterfield Inlet.  Looking back to the time that I was in Chesterfield Inlet, it was not all bad.  The system of moving education, was extremely good.  Looking back, how did we retrieve so much of Inuktitut language, from our parents?  Over there, they wanted to begin stopping Inuktitut in the classroom, but modern education in southern way, something I gain a lot of understanding from.  Can we talk about the foundation of the schools in our communities.  We already know that we are trying to keep on our hands, our Inuktitut language.  We are trying to make sure this happens.  But, education in English,  it is becoming a way of life for Inuit.  I know, we are not going to return to the traditional ways of the Inuit, completely.  Never-the-less, we have to take pride in the fact that our Ancesters have brought us here to this day, even though, it was a long journey.  It think, it would have many uses, if we could meet again in Chesterfield Inlet and talk about the modern education system.  Like, how can we improve the current education system, within Nunavut? 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Most of all, do you think the Government of Nunavut could learn a great deal from us, who have gone to the Residential School? 

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Some of it, yes.  They could learn some from it.  It is quite obvious.  For example, you Peter Irniq, have participated in the making the Government of Nunavut, perhaps, those who have gone to school there, could provide more strength to the Government of Nunavut.  Especially with what we are trying to do today. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  When we were going to school there at a residential school, we did not learn almost nothing about Inuit culture.  But looking at the Survivors who went there, they appear to be very strong people.  I think, they could also vision the future.  Also, we had very strong parents at that time.  They knew their Inuit culture in a very big way, and practiced it well.  It would seem to be that these young people who are going to school today, would benefit from learning more about Inuit culture and where Inuit came from.  Especially at the high school level.  If they take more of their own culture, do you think, they could use this for their future strength?  Is this true?  Does it seem to have any truth to it?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:   To think of it, it seems to be true.  I think, we have to return to our past.  For example, in Ottawa, Nunavut Sivuniksavut is working very hard.  They have a lot of responsibility.  What they do is they learn things down there, that they could have learned up here and when that happens, they say, oh, really, we could have learn that at home.  They finally come to that conclusion, when they are learning more about Inuit culture, when they got to Ottawa.  Perhaps, what they learn down there, they could be transferred to Nunavut and put into practice inside the classrooms in Nunavut.  I think, they could gain a lot more knowledge.  Talking about my own children, they do not have a complete knowledge about Inuit culture.  We have not taught them.  We were taught by our parents.  And because, I have other responsibilities, I don’t have all the time in the world, to teach them all.  They should be put inside the classrooms.  They would have a lot of people to our students. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Regarding as to what happened to us in Chesterfield Inlet, in terms of what happened to us about abuses and regarding our education system, what would you like to tell our southern Qablunaat in particular in the rest of Canada? 

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk: To tell the people down there, maybe if I was a big boss..

       

      Peter Irniq:  Suppose, you became a Prime Minister of Canada…

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Inuit live here and they know about their land more than anyone else.  They should be asked more questions, what do you want for your land?  What would you want for your territory?  Today it seems as though, we are just put or located here.  Even though, Iglulik is here, and here is what it needs…as a commuity..we are just given things here and there.  And the things that Inuit truly need, they are not coming up, they are not popping up.  Just using Nanisivik as an example, there are no more people there. 

       

      And now, they just want to give it to the Military.  Why does Military have to be here?  There are lots of other things that need to be considered.  We need instead that we as Inuit can enhance what we need.  Where are they?  I think, these things need to be felt more by the Canadian Government.  Government always, “we have no monies”.  It is pretty obvious now that the designed for Nunavut, particularly of what Inuit need, priorities, things that can allow us move forward, we need to see the money increased.  And for those who are the survivors of residential school, many of them are hurt and need healing.  They say, there is some money for healing but, they are not at all easy to get into.  They seem to be really hard to get into, unless, you have all kinds of policies or have to go through so much red tape to finally get something.  If you can get through all that, then you can finally get some of it.  I think for another, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission on Residential Schools, only has five-year mandate.  But as long as you have rules that are completely tied up, then, it’s not going to be easy.  It is then, it seems, useless to get into it.  Or trying to get something from it.   I don’t know how.

       

      Peter Irniq:  When we were going to a residential school, they were trying to have us assimilated into the White Man’s world, and not having any Inuit cultural programs for a long time, afterwards.  The school opened in 1953 and closed in 1969. When was it have you decided to retrieve your Inuit identity, or your Inuitness?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Not very long ago.  After Chesterfield Inlet, I returned home, probably in 1969 or 68.  Probably in 1968, I returned home for good.  So, when I got here, I started to work and started to make money, around 1968.  And also, I wanted to take some of the culture of the Qablunaaq(White Man).  But, my father was a full-time hunter, he would be out hunting with his dog team and would return, so my mother would tell me, “go and help your father”.  I tended to follow my mother’s instructions.  Perhaps, it was around that time, that I started to return to the ways of the Inuit, particularly Inuit culture.  It was like this, when my father came home from hunting, then if my mother tells me to go and help my father, then, I would do whatever she wanted me to do, to help my father.  Today, when they are told to do that, they seem to be able to tell you, “wait”.  At that time, it was not possible to say, wait.  When you were told do something, you had to do it, as it was to help someone.  A need to listen and follow what you were told by your mother, was an Inuit way of life and part of our culture.  I think, it was around 1968, I decided immediately, to take back my culture. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  The teachers who hit us with a yard stick, when they heard us speaking Inuktitut, and they used to severely punish us, it seemed as though, they went overboard, I think, as Inuit, we think that…are you carrying anger towards them?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Part of it, yes, it used to be.  It was during the earlier years that I used to be more angry but since then, I have been talking about it quite a lot, I tend to be carrying less anger.  But, following Inuit culture, if a little child was not behaving, we used to be able to spank them.  Looking back at their system, when the punished us, it was like, they could have just spanked us but they used to go overboard with the punishments, I think, that part broke us apart.  Then later on, the government made law, that you are not to touch your child.  They then, broke more of the Inuit unwritten laws.  Now, up to this day, we are not to do anything at all, to our children, in a way of discipline.  As long as they are able to speak, if you do anything to them, then, they tell the police and the Social Workers get involved, that is the way, they are today.  If the teachers at that time would have been reported about what they were doing, then they could have been dealt with as well.  They hit us!  If they could have used Inuit culture and only spank us, without needing to use a weapon.  I would not have mind so much, if only they spanked us to discipline us, I would not have mind so much but, the yard stick was three feet?  They used those to hit you, and hit you hard!  Then, they could have been dealt with by the Police and by the Social Services!  No one was moved or cared about to do anything about what they did to us.  I used to be very angry at those but having gotten them out of my system, I am no longer angry about them. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  I have no more questions, Joe, do you have anything else to tell?

       

      Joe Ataguttaaluk:  Hmmm..well, when we were in Chesterfield Inlet, referring to men, especially those, who were our age group, for those of us, who were from the hostel, I wonder why, we allowed ourselves  or for whatever reason, we had them as our enemies or opponents.  For this reason, I have apologized to them.  To those, who lived in their own homes, we were friends inside the classroom.  But, when we got outside of the classroom, we then used to start a fight.  Looking back, I think to myself, what was the use?  What a waste of time, it was!  I have told them personally, I was sorry about this.  And I was very thankful to Andre Tautu, who came from Chesterfield Inlet, he also acknowledged and apologized to us.  I don’t know why, we were doing that, perhaps, because we were just being little children.  I just wanted to emphasize this. 

       

      Peter Irniq:  Thank you very much to you.  Wonderful!  

       

       

       

       

       


      Year of Production: 2008

      Country: Canada

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      uploaded date: 10-12-2008